Google vs Amazon offer

Oath swe_
Nov 24, 2019 54 Comments

My friend has on offer from Amazon for sde2 at Cupertino. She is a new grad with ~1.5 years of experience in India + internships in the US
172k base
80k joining in first year
62k joining in second year
180k shares over 4 years(5%, 15%, 40% 40%)
TC 260k
higher TC even in 2nd year

She just got an offer from Google for L3 and they are not willing to negotiate (she is a returning intern)
125k base
50k bonus
300k stocks over 4 years(25% each year)
TC 230k

Google has told her that she can reduce the stocks and increase the signing bonus or vice versa.

Any advice on which company she should join? Both the teams look good. But google team seems a bit better.
Amazon base seems very attractive, higher TC in 2nd year too, but Google being Google has been the dream of every new grad. Plus all the other perks at Google. Really confused.

Also, if she plans to join Google, by how much should she reduce the stocks and increase the bonus? More money should be in stocks or more signing bonus?
if she puts a lot in stocks right now will they normalize it in the second year?

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TOP 54 Comments
  • Facebook / Eng
    mturtle

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Amazon, Facebook
    BIO
    ex-AMZN, ex-fb
    mturtlemore
    Go AMZN, it's a higher level with more money. You will learn a ton, then if you want, you can join google as L4 in a year or two.
    Nov 24, 2019 0
  • Amazon RBOo88
    That Amazon offer is near the top of the SDE2 band. If she's actually performing at that level with 1.5 years experience then she could make it to SDE3 within 2-3 years with a large scope of impact. Or, get managed out if she's not ready to deliver at that level. Not sure what Google's like but definitely consider trajectory over time, not just current comp
    Nov 24, 2019 11
    • IBM Trunk
      Is there a typical profile for an SDE3? I imagine that level tends to have people with significant experience, not just your average kid with 4-5 years out of school.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon HGwR54
      Also hired as SDE3 put you above the median TC, promotion to SDE3 only earn you low band TC.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon inMyPrime
      As an SDE3 you should be able to deliver a meaty project with ambiguity in 6-9 months from scratch leading a small team, while coordinating with a bunch of other teams. You don’t need a mgr and pm because you playing their role but they can help too. Oh, and you also can’t screw up while doing operations and oncall. You interview other ppl a lot and mentoring junior devs.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • IBM Trunk
      This makes sense then. I was asked a lot of questions around leading projects, deliverables, small teams, etc. There didn't seem to be a big surprise when I told them I only spend about 30% of my time coding. I'm not really sure where the hands on coding work come in to play if an SDE3 is leading the rest of these initiatives.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon inMyPrime
      SDE3s still code a lot and it should be exemplary code. They also included in almost every CR. Everybody comes to SDE3 to run their ideas by. SDE3s are the main gatekeepers when it comes to code testing, functional validation and load/scaling tests. You have to run it yourself and get your own numbers. You can’t trust anybody as in so and so said X but apparently it’s Y. SDE3 writes the main project design doc. It is a job that will eat up all of your time. To sum up, I like to say that successful devs at Amzn are like clowns in the circus - you have to be ready to be a part of every act and perform well.
      Nov 24, 2019
  • Amazon inMyPrime
    I have worked at Amzn for too many years. Always wanted to try Google but decided to build a career at Amzn because I was told I was so close to the next level. In retrospective it all appears to be a personal and financial mistake. Next level does not come with TC increase, maybe a single digit percent-wise. To get there though, you will have no WLB, you will solely manage your own career, fight for TC bump every 2 years by bringing another offer - even startups will pay more for your skills. Also, you oncall nights and weekends, constantly interviewing ppl because of high attrition, working against unrealistic deadlines and will be delayed promo by a year because you delivered an enormous impactful project but came two weeks shorter than artificial date set by your mgr. I hope that Google is better than this but I can’t tell.
    Nov 24, 2019 2
    • Amazon knightPar
      This! Ask your friend what’s more valuable, money or peace of mind? Remember how aggressively amazon manages people out. If she has a work visa need, long term even with this “low ball” google offer, she’ll likely be happier at Google
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon IlhT01
      Well said. Amazon is a shit hole. Don't go there
      Nov 24, 2019
  • Google tXtE40
    google
    Nov 24, 2019 2
    • Oath swe_
      OP
      Any thoughts which will make it easier to evaluate?
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon rockNrol
      More stress to perform at amazon than at google. If you are looking for better wlb google otherwise amazon
      Nov 24, 2019
  • Google 4EVR
    Your friend is still young. So I would recommend taking Amazon with higher salary now and then can come to Google anytime in future.
    Nov 24, 2019 6
    • Amazon TDKU11
      I am at amazon last 6 months...run. It’s awful, I’m waiting out my time to exit
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon knightPar
      Agreed. If you have the choice, I see no reason to pick Amazon for more money alone. If it was a dream team/product interest fit the sure. But money alone? Nope.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon 3754
      Agreed... I've been at Amazon for 5 months and the pressure has caused me a lot of stress already.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Google 4EVR
      Google is more comfort zone and tough to move out of. But when young you should experience other cultures post which you will appreciate things at Google better and enjoy it. She can join Google with higher salary later if she goes to Amazon now.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon knightPar
      To each their own I guess. My view is life is too short to work for a company that’s notorious for aggressive deadlines and firing fast and all the stress that comes with that.

      It’s not like Google will be comfortable all the time but the company has much better work life balance, which in turn dictates success in many aspects of your life.
      Nov 24, 2019
  • Facebook solotravel
    Wow! These offers are insane for someone with no US experience. I’d definitely choose Google as 30-40k difference in TC will catch up considering refreshers at G
    Nov 24, 2019 0
  • Amazon TDKU11
    Google for benefits and better long term
    Nov 24, 2019 0
  • Google ganzoq
    Consider team as well. For TC, there is ~50k refresh from 2nd year, while it’s zero or very little in Amazon. And it’s not hard to promote from L3 to L4 in 2 years, while it’s much harder to get senior in Amazon. The TC difference should be mainly in first couple of years.
    Nov 24, 2019 4
    • Oath swe_
      OP
      So in this case should she reduce the stocks and increase the joining bonus?
      Or vice versa?
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Google ganzoq
      Yes if she needs more cash immediately. If not, I don’t think it matters much.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Oath swe_
      OP
      She’s concerned if she’s a very high stocks value from now, she’ll get very less raise during refreshers?
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Google ganzoq
      Refresh has nothing to do with initial stock.
      Nov 24, 2019
  • Amazon hWnc48
    Reading the comments I am wondering how will Amazon be able to recruit people in the future.... 😅
    Congrats for the offers! The TC is not that much different, and your friend is falling in the trap that "money is everything" when you negotiate to sign up. And once you are in you will see that there are other factors much more important....we all learned that the hard way !
    Nov 24, 2019 2
    • Amazon inMyPrime
      Vast majority ~90% of all SDEs at Amzn (incoming and working) are 1s and 2s, i.e. people who are young, have high hopes and ready to sacrifice for the future career benefits, especially when shown a decent TC package for the initial 4 years. The company is not interested in creating a substantial pool of senior engineers. They are expensive primadonnas and tend to disagree with management on timeline and quality bar.
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon froogality
      Amazon will probably buy Blind to shut the negative PR.
      Nov 25, 2019
  • Microsoft RTFe30
    Google .. Not even a question.. the first refresher + benefits makes Google already better starting at year 2
    Nov 24, 2019 2
    • Microsoft RTFe30
      And amzn work environment is garbage to say the least
      Nov 24, 2019
    • Amazon ckik58
      Did you work at Amazon before?
      Nov 24, 2019

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