Help defeat S386

Sep 27, 2019 164 Comments

After seeing so many posts drumming up support for S386, packed with misleading statements and demanding "fairness", here is a post to seek support to permanently kill this selfish, repugnant bill.

S386 removes the 7% per-country cap for Green Card (GC) approvals. This is being pushed by a well-funded pro-Indian lobby group. Immigration Voice (IV) has been at the front of this campaign. It's being pushed because there is currently a huge backlog of Indian applicants and their wait time has grown to decades (some claim 150 years). Even though Indians are effectively capped at 20% because they get spill-over quota from countries which don't use up their quota, they still have long wait times.

The reason there is a huge backlog of Indians waiting for GCs is due to a couple of factors. Firstly, there is no per-country cap on H1Bs, one of the primary paths to a GC. Secondly, Indian Consulting Companies (ICCs) have exploited weaknesses in the U.S. immigration system. They submit multiple H1B applications per person, lie on the applications to make candidates appear high-skilled and other tricks. The U.S. immigration officials don't have the tools or resources to combat this fraud, so this has resulted in hundreds of thousands of low-skilled cheaters from India flooding the system. Even when consuming the spillover quota and getting 20% of GCs per year, with so many people waiting, wait times are massive.

The tragedy of this is that there are honest, skilled Indians who are stuck waiting a long time for their GC because their country quota has been filled up by low-skilled cheaters.

The proponents of S386 claim that removing country caps is "fair", and would have you believe that country caps are discriminatory. This is a flawed argument, and is blantantly selfish. The country caps are designed to ensure diversity in the skilled immigration intake. Diversity makes America stronger and it is our right to try and ensure that. Getting a GC is not a right, it is a privilege a lucky few get. Getting a H1B is not a promise of getting a GC.

The effect of passing S386 is that Indians will consume the entire GC quota for the next 10+ years, assuming that there is no increase of cheating by ICCs and low-skilled Indian candidates. What this means is that candidates from the Rest of the World (RoW) will have to wait over 10 years before getting their GC whereas most countries currently have a wait time of under 2 years. Candidates from China currently have a wait time of 3-4 years (they are the second-largest skilled immigrant source) would also have their wait times exceed 10 years. There is a false narrative that Chinese candidates somehow support this "fairness" bill. In reality, most Chinese oppose this bill because they know they will suffer. S386 supporters are claiming Chinese support the bill in an effort to portray the bill as fair. Do not be fooled by this.

There is another false narrative that all the opposition to S386 can be traced to Iranian candidates. There is no evidence to support this claim. Like any other group, Iranians have advocacy websites which oppose this bill. It's unclear why Iranians are being used as a proxy for the "opposition", but it could well be a cynical attempt to leverage anti-Muslim sentiment and the current tensions with Iran.

Reasons to oppose S386:

1) If you are not Indian and want a GC, you will be screwed over. Your wait time will exceed 10 years. Sign a petition. Protest. Make your voice heard.

2) If you are American and you value diversity, call your representatives in Congress. Oh, and sign a petition and protest. It's our country and immigration should serve our interests, not the other way around.

3) If you are an honest, skilled Indian, whether or not you have a GC, you should be vocal against this bill. I understand if you are waiting a long time for your GC that you are frustrated, but if S386 passes you should expect that people assume you're one of the low-skilled cheaters, because statistically that pre-conception will be correct. You're going to have to prove your merit every time.

4) If you oppose rewarding cheaters or you want to keep the quality bar high, you should oppose this bill.

S386 proponents try and play the sympathy card and talk about how it's unfair for honest, skilled Indians to wait so long. Yes, that's a shame, but dumping the problem on RoW (who have by and large not cheated) is unfair and the notion of giving all these cheaters a free pass is repugnant.

Allow me to make an allegory. Family A does not care about sanitation, so they let the shit pile up outside the house on their property. The neighbours (B) are annoyed by the smell, but have no power to change it. They are grateful for having a strong fence. One day the shit starts overflowing into house A and they say "Sht inside the house is making our children sick, we must dispose of this shit", so they proceed to shovel the shit over the fence to B. When the neighbours object, they say "you are heartless, think of the children. Our children are innocent and have the right to a clean house. It's unfair for the shit to be unequally distributed".

The point of this allegory is not to say that Indians are shit. It is a story to elicit an emotional response to help show why S386 is repugnant to everybody else. Read it from the point of view of family B. I don't have a problem with Indians. I have worked with plenty of smart Indians. I have worked for and hired and mentored Indians. I have a problem with cheaters and people who are selfish and entitled.

In the story above, we (should) all feel sorry for the children of family A, since they are not at fault; it is their parents who are to blame. Even so, family B has every right to protect their property. Hollering "OMG! But think of the children!" is a disgusting, cynical attempt at manipulating the issue.

If the per-country caps are removed, the problem of low-skilled cheaters from India will likely grow 10x worse as more people will realise they can get away with this cheating and get their undeserving hands on a GC.

To solve the backlog problem, country caps should be introduced for H1Bs and other paths to GC, a rigorous merit test should be administered by the U.S. government, and people who do not meet the requirements should not enter a backlog but instead must leave when their temporary visa expires. That is a solution that gives certainty and relieves pain for the honest, skilled Indians waiting for a GC without rewarding and incenting the low-skilled cheaters. It is a solution that does not punish RoW for the problems coming from one country.

I am an American citizen and I endorse this message.

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TOP 164 Comments
  • Apple / Data
    Onsjsm

    Apple Data

    PRE
    Intuit
    BIO
    Engineering, devops,AI,database cloud,infrastructure
    Onsjsmmore
    Feel like ur Indian who got GC and opposing this now 😊
    Sep 27, 2019 11
    • Daimler / Data ∝CMV
      @NGge16 distraction sure, but you write like an average snob, Indian or otherwise. Bilingual Indians tend to be snobbier than a similarly educated American though, so I'd say it was more likely than not that this (a write up about a bill mostly about Indians) was written by an Indian.
      Sep 28, 2019
    • Symantec NGge16
      OP
      Yeah, I may be a snob. However, I happen to be a white American snob.

      It's really rather pitiful that y'all are obsessing about whether I'm an Indian posing as an American.

      People who struggle to discredit the message resort to discrediting the messenger.
      Sep 28, 2019
  • Amazon 🔜🔜qq
    Flagging it for hate speech.
    Sep 27, 2019 20
    • EPAM Systems jdHsn64
      🤣🤣🤣🤣
      Sep 28, 2019
    • Amazon AMZL11
      Finally he/she turned out to be a trump supporter ... that explain low IQ level ... Rest In Peace mate I sympathize with you
      Sep 28, 2019
  • Google ULLV42
    I did not read the full post just the headline. Think about a rule where Greencard cap to a country like Iceland (Population 340K which is 1/10th the population of Los Angeles and 1/2 the population of SFO ) is same as that for India (Population 1.3B). Any logic to prove it to be fair is irrational.
    Sep 28, 2019 36
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      Lies again!
      ALL Employment based visas combined amount to a tiny ~10% of immigration. It's impossible to destroy a majority of industry diversity when you are talking about a minority to begin with!

      Also equality, not diversity, is enshrined in the Constitution and the very declaration of Independence. It is the core on which America was founded.

      I'd like you to show me where it says diversity is a higher goal anywhere.
      Sep 30, 2019
    • Symantec NGge16
      OP
      Not lies, just because you can't understand. As for lack of diversity, plenty of companies in Silicon Valley where it's majority Indian. Pay attention.
      Sep 30, 2019
  • Yahoo tgbv
    OP You left out the facts to support your argument. Most of people in the backlog are already in US, have built their family and are contributing to the society in a positive way. The H1 B abuse is effective being contained by increased number of RFE and rejection the Consulting companies are getting in last two years. You also excluded that employment GC are limited to 3000 per each EB category and dependents ( wife, kids) are counted. Employment based GC per year is capped at 140,000 per year. US does support diversity using other methods(diversity quota, family GC). How can you use country of origin as criteria for employment based GC?
    Sep 27, 2019 17
    • Symantec NGge16
      OP
      And I think your comments are stupid and selfish.

      1) Congress is being lobbied hard by IV. Yet, despite UC, the bill has died again. Maybe some senators have seen through the smoke screen and the "Fairness" in the title and are seeing the problems.

      2) Country caps ensure diversity in industry sectors. You don't care because you just want to be let in. But Americans (should) care because we don't want Silicon Valley to turn into India2. We want to keep it diverse.

      3) I hope that S386 doesn't ever pass and the pain of the current situation finally leads to reform of H1B, L1 and OPT so that we can ensure diversity there. I note that Indian posters are wanting to spread the pain to RoW to try and trigger change, which is truly selfish. RoW has been following the rules and supported diversity.

      You somehow seem to think that RoW and Americans have to have so much sympathy for Indians (who have a problem of their own making) that they are willing to be screwed over and/or give up their diversity goals. Get it through your head that others don't want to be dragged down with you.

      I hope after reading this you will finally get it, but I don't expect it. You're too blinded by GC famine.
      Sep 30, 2019
    • Cruise Automation ape-polo
      @OP I second everything you said (and I'm not an Indian). I think that all those who support this bill are people who don't care about anyone else but themselves. They're willing to put the rest of us immigrants far behind in the line just so that they get two to three extra years in return. Why is that? Why should I as an immigrant coming from a well-functioning country where people don't feel the need to flee it, have to stand in line longer because so many people want to flee their country and move to the US? I suggest that all those who support the bill, invest their energy in making their own country a better place to live in so that not so many of their countrymen would attempt to come here and make immigration so difficult for themselves.
      Jan 6
  • Microsoft giggitycow
    Few things to clarify:

    First of all bill is officially dead. So it has to start again from scratch in 2021.

    H1B is abused by companies not individuals. Even bill is not passed there will be abuse - so raise your voice and ask for reform. S386 has nothing to do with H1B abuse

    Backlog is not due to H1B - there is L1 and F1 Visa. If there was no backlog, believe me every 2nd Indian will come for F1 and get GC

    There is 0 impact to diversity as there is no change in number of immigrants and non-immigrants coming. Even wait is 150 years they will not leave US
    Sep 27, 2019 4
    • Google jkLy05
      Your last two paragraphs sound contradictory. If it passes and backlog clears, then won't there be impact to diversity?
      Sep 28, 2019
    • EPAM Systems jdHsn64
      Here's why he is wrong on all counts

      1. The bill is not dead. Anyone with a tiny bit of legislative knowledge would tell you so. They can keep bringing it for UC of even vote.

      2. H1b is abused by companies and knowing individuals. They know they abuse it, when they fake their resume and experience and when they sit benched without pay.

      3. The backlog is mainly due to H1b, which is the biggest syphon towards EB GC. 75% of H1b gods to Indians.

      4. S386 would impact diversity in the work space. No person outside of India would ever come to work here knowing he'll have to wait a decade for a GC. That's an Indian thing, they're desperate and fine to wait as long as necessary, since this gets them out of India.

      So yeah, the comment above is a load of BS
      Sep 28, 2019
  • Nike l3bronJ
    Well, At least Indians does way much better than the green card eaters with this skillset from certain countries. Here's list of top Green card sponsors for these GC eaters who are on top row opposing s386.
    Sep 27, 2019 0
  • Cisco / Eng
    Jsonf

    Cisco Eng

    PRE
    500 Startups
    Jsonfmore
    I’m an indian and I agree with OP. I did my Master’s from a reputed university and am stuck in this line because of these ICCs and fake body shops. I support a merit based system. If the current system doesn’t change, I don’t mind going back to India. There are ample amount of opportunities back home
    Sep 27, 2019 8
    • Amazon AMZL11
      Why a meritorious person has to suffer which was missed by US immigrant officials in the first place. Don’t say that so called low skilled are so skilled to make a fool out of elite force
      Sep 29, 2019
    • Symantec NGge16
      OP
      I've already explained how ICE has not had the tools or resources to rigorously scrutinise applicants. We shall see how effective the RFEs are. Let us wait and see if this cleans out the abuse.
      Sep 29, 2019
  • Amazon 🔜🔜qq
    Why are you so afraid of competition? Are you not good enough to compete with other talented individuals? Stop spreading such hate speech. If there was enough tech supply, there would be no H1B.
    Sep 27, 2019 5
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      OP, ignore the trolls.
      Sep 27, 2019
    • Amazon AMZL11
      Yaa yaa 1% TC bullshit and call yourself elite, OP you need to check again who is sitting on top of your management chain.

      Let's mark this post as hate speech guys
      Sep 28, 2019
  • tldr. I just want to say since India is such a great nation, the largest democracy in the world. I sincerely hope all the Indians go back to their wonderful home land and keep making it great.
    Sep 27, 2019 2
    • eBay otha
      Our country is literally full lol.
      Sep 28, 2019
    • Daimler / Data ∝CMV
      @otha That's relative. We have literally the highest %age of arable land, and can grow multiple. We're not the seventh biggest country, we're the biggest. We have such a huge population because we're productive enough to support it.

      Our country is far from full. The bay area is breaking at the seams, and yet Indian cities function with way higher people/sq km. Nowhere in the world is full.

      Sure I agree on population control and conscious instead of unconscious breeding, but the world can still support everyone here (and India alone can do that too)
      Sep 28, 2019
  • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
    So many lies OP. You were unable to defend yourself in other posts when questioned logically so you combine all your lies into one post.

    Read my post on the myth busters where I cite unbiased credible facts to back my statements ...

    https://www.teamblind.com/article/S386HR1044-Myth-Buster-with-sources-cited-8rqdxDK4

    and compare that with your literal "shit-filled" rant.
    I will respond with this..
    American immigration is not a charity! Its purpose is to serve American interests and American interests alone, not to do social justice to immigrants from all over the world.
    Today we have a system that gives a pizza delivery guy (EB3) from Ukraine while backlogging an Indian cancer researching PhD (EB1) just because of their countries of birth. That is against American interests and values on which America was founded.
    S386 bill eliminates such discrimination and so is America first.
    As for diversity, there is already a diversity visa category. If you believe that isn't sufficient call your senator and have them increase the number of diversity visas.

    Tldr: you are wrong. Americans should support S386. Call your senators now!
    Sep 28, 2019 4
    • Amazon AMZL11
      lets mark this post as hate speech guys and get it removed from Blind. OP has its own agenda and twisted all facts in this bill
      Sep 28, 2019
    • Symantec NGge16
      OP
      @VMware: ROFL. I defended my point of view elsewhere quite well. However, my points were spread out across various threads, so I wanted to collect many of them on one place.

      It appears you think it's OK for you to post your point of view but it's not OK for me to post mine.

      To be blunt, I don't believe your "unbiased credible facts" citations. I've seen other citations which show why S386 will screw over RoW (something you claim won't happen). I'll throw back your claim of lying right back at you.

      It's not me who is wrong, it's you. Let us continue going around in circles so that we can make progress.
      Sep 28, 2019

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