Is Amazon really struggling for hiring?

Meta
Staff-no?

Go to company page Meta

Staff-no?
Feb 7 43 Comments

I'm an E6 that has no problem with titles. I've got a fairly common E6 for my YoE (about 8-9 YoE) and TC at about 550-600k(yeah it keeps dropping) for a top tier Bay area tech company (basically Goog, Netflix, Airbnb, Uber, Lyft, Twitter etc pays about that much and you can find significant portion of Staff engs starting their YoE around mine)

Anyhow, Amazon recruiters are keep asking me for Sr SDE roles. Whenever I ask them about principal sde roles they all ghost me.

So far I've only got contacted with 1 Sr EM who explained me why i wouldn't be a good fit for his team as a PE since their team is looking for a specialist.

Amazon L6(Sr SDE) is like E5.5 literally. Comp isn't as high as E6, responsibilities are also not as much as E6. It also seems like there's a big gap that Principal Engs need to have specialization, where for FB/Meta you don't.

Now I find it hard to believe that a place like Amazon isn't even considering me for Principal SDE when they're known for PIPing hard. I thought, worst case they realize I'm not producing the expected outcome 6-12 months later and PIP me. But it's not the case.

I also realized that Amazon's pay structure is a bit weird. In a way that:
3 YoEs can get L5 offer paying them 450k
Then they expect 10 YoE to accept L6 and only paying them 550k

This shows to me that Amazon isn't really looking for experienced SWEs since the reward isn't high.

I do believe that if Amazon believes it needs people like me (who is a high performing L6 but not L7 yet) then Amazon could split either L6 into two or L7 into two like how Uber does with their L5A and L5B and pay that role 650-850k. And yes Amazon should pay more than other companies because your WLB and perks are worse.

I'm writing this for 2 purposes:
1) Maybe some HR at Amazon or VP could read and take action.
2) Would like to hear EMs/Director's opinion on whether they are hiring Principal or L6 engs and struggling with that.

comments

Want to comment? LOG IN or SIGN UP
TOP 43 Comments
  • Amazon
    yolobolo

    Go to company page Amazon

    yolobolo
    Anyone is E6 at Meta these days.
    Feb 7 2
  • Amazon
    TYLOPSIS

    Go to company page Amazon

    TYLOPSIS
    10 YOE and you want 650-850k. You realize how redic that sounds. Go to levels.fyi and lookup compatibles.

    Amazon leadership often jokes they want missionaries not mercenaries
    Feb 7 4
    • Meta
      Staff-no?

      Go to company page Meta

      Staff-no?
      OP
      As I said Amazon does compensate 3 YoE with 450k.

      At 10 YoE what makes you think 650k is not justified?
      Feb 8
    • Amazon
      TYLOPSIS

      Go to company page Amazon

      TYLOPSIS
      @meta I’m sure that’s possible if you have a phd in ai/ml. But for most roles it’s simply out of band. However we’ll see later this week once the 2022 comp bands are released.

      When you think how likely Amazon is able to find someone who’s good enough for the same role at cheaper comp target. The conclusion you’ll get is very likely for most roles
      Feb 8
  • Amazon
    pkWI38

    Go to company page Amazon

    pkWI38
    So I generally don't follow levelling across industries other than cursory look at levels-fyi. I'm a newly promoted L7 IC in Amazon, and across my time here I've seen two categories of PEs: Some highly tenured folks having expertise in broad areas (say database, security ...), or internally promoted folks who have been in their orgs for ages (it's much different now where promotion criteria is better defined allowing for more internal promotions).

    If I look at your profile, you don't fit into either of the areas. You may be highly skilled, but there is a lack of datapoint for EMs/BRs and the cost of mistake is high given L7 scope can be vast in Amazon (there was a time when massive orgs in retail side would have a single PE).

    Maybe the right idea is as you suggested to have a level in between. I think this works well for lateral hires, but becomes yet another step for people going through internal promotions.
    Feb 7 8
    • Amazon
      seaweed

      Go to company page Amazon

      seaweed
      ^^ This. OP you have a serious misunderstanding about Amazon L6’s pay and responsibility. We are paid 2/3 of yours but carry same or more responsibilities. PE is 2% of engineering population. Basically you are leading an entire org (not “sometimes influence”) of engineers. At least 50 engineers are expecting your direction for org’s success. Apparently you are not there yet.
      Feb 9
    • Meta
      kAil34

      Go to company page Meta

      kAil34
      spot on
      May 6
  • Amazon
    bengan

    Go to company page Amazon

    bengan
    Amazon PE is expected to lead 100 engineers and generally reports to Director. Do you lead 100 engineers? If not, you are a high Sr, not PE.
    Feb 8 3
    • Amazon
      bengan

      Go to company page Amazon

      bengan
      I hear what you are saying, but having worked with several PEs in Amazon and Sr. SDEs who have gone from Amazon to Facebook E6, I think the scope is larger for Amazon PE. As an example, my current org of 300+ engineers has 2 PEs. The Amazon wide recommendation is to have a ratio of 1% PEs - so I would doubt any org has PEs lead 15 engineers. (Happy to verify orgs for you if you would like to DM me).

      As for comp, Amazon is known to target “mid-market”. In the past years, Amazon has relied upon stock growth to ensure the comp is competitive.
      Feb 8
    • Amazon
      bengan

      Go to company page Amazon

      bengan
      As a side note - this is mainly due to the very large level band for L5 (SDE 2) and L6 (Sr. SDE) level. In my opinion this is really bad for engineers who focus on growth since this can sometimes feel like you are putting in a lot of effort for very delayed recognition for the same.

      But that is a discussion for a different post. 😀
      Feb 8
  • Amazon
    day5

    Go to company page Amazon

    day5
    Recruiters are ghosting because L7 hiring is handled by a different recruiting team and I don’t think other recruiters are incentivized to continue talking to you if you are not going to help meet their recruiting numbers.
    Feb 8 0