Leave Tech Lead Position and NYC for Amazon L4
Interviewed for L5 at Amazon, and I got placed at L4 in Seattle. I’m currently a tech lead for a large insurance company and am curious if it’s in my best interest to take a position two levels down from my current(tech lead -> senior eng -> eng(L4)). The position would require me to move to Seattle, although there are a lot less taxes, I love nyc as I’ve lived outside nyc my whole life and my family is in the area. Some pros to Amazon: - Great team members. - Challenging work.(I feel unchallenged in my current role) - Great company/products (I cant get behind the products I’m currently working on) - Career growth (I think upward growth in my current position isn’t something aspirational) - I got really excited about the position in general after speaking with a couple of the engineering managers. Exciting products, an ability to work on stacks I have no experience with, finally an opportunity with some ML, ability to switch teams for the right fit, etc. Some cons to Amazon offer: - Lower role/ responsibilities. - In Seattle and not NYC - Less money. (I imagine my TC will be someone from 150 to 180k from Amazon. Currently I can bill at $100/ hour for at least 40 hours a week. Given that the money comes as as Corp to Corp, I can structure my taxes and my TC can be anywhere from 185k to 245k currently. Depending on how much I work as well. TC: 185k - 245k (Dependent on hours worked/ how I structure my taxes) YOE: 5 (I have a Masters from an Ivey in Machine Learning. If that adds anything)
I don’t know, I feel like you need some competing offers.
I’ve got a Facebook onsite in a week. But competing offers won’t bump me to L5. I figure I’m capped at the salary at Amazon. The alternatives are waiting and interviewing for L5 level positions across other FANG
Facebook pays much better than Amazon
L4 is what new grads are hired at. Try facebook.
Thanks. I figured you’d be advocating the place, at any position. I have a final round with FB in a week, but didn’t want to include it in the post given I don’t have an offer from them or anything. If I dotn pass the FB, do you think it’s in my best interest to take L4 over my current situation? Or wait and keep interviewing.
I left Amazon over a year ago. You can learn stuff there, but you can learn stuff at Google or Facebook too, and they treat their staff better (money, but also just in terms of empathy and respect)
I moved down to an analyst (non tech) role to join Amazon. I was managing the entire department at a smaller company prior. You just need to prove your worth to climb up the ladder. I started as L4 hourly then moved to L4 salary and then to L5 within 2 years. Was worth it for me.
Thanks for the input. I just feel like once I take L4 I’m stuck as that as my starting point. Versus waiting for an L5 equivalent at another FANG company within a couple months.
Valid point. Also it doesn’t even really have to be another company. Amazon is so big another org may see you as L5.
Take the best FANG offer you can get. Sounds like staying where you are is going to kill your career anyway. So if the only offer is the L4 Amazon then take it and work your way from there. Experience matters and you still early in your career. Tech lead at some insurance company doesn't mean anything to FANG. ML Masters means you won't have a problem at least getting interviews anytime you try. Recruiters will always pick up your CV.
Thanks for the input! I think the question becomes should I take L4 or hold out and keep interviewing? And I’m also curious, will that fact that I was only an L4 at Amazon hold me back from other positions down the line? Like I I take the L4 and in 2 years I’m interviewing at FB, will they ask what level I was at Amazon and give me the equivalents
IMHO L4 at Amazon looks better any day than insurance company experience (i don't mean to be offensive). And if you get the opportunity to apply ML at Amazon that will have a lot of weight in the future. Depending on how soon you need to accept the Amazon offer, if I were you, i would definitely try to get as many offers as possible. But if nothing else i would move to get the experience at Amazon.
L4 to L5 is one year thing if you are on right team with good manager
Agreed. If they’re good, they’ll get promoted. If bad mgr, just hop teams
How many yoe? Either title is inflated (no offense ...) or you didn’t do that well in the onsite. Plus you mentioned contract hourly work ... then what do you tech lead on hourly projects? Or do you manage a team? Context sounds strange. Tech lead / senior is l6 (and many get down leveled to l5 which has a huge range ...) L4 is kinda new grad - up to 2-3 years of experience...
I have about 4.5 YOE. I’m staffed as the tech lead for a large insurance company. So I lead a team of 8 engineers, and the contract is typically 40hrs/week like a full time job. But going over I can clock for various reasons. I also have a dev shop and have some contract working coming through to that. 10-20 additional hours a week at $100/hr. I didn’t take that into account for my tc since I could do some of that remotely on the weekend in Seattle. I interviewed for L5 figuring I wasn’t quite qualified for L6, and got bumped to L4. I think I did just okay in the interview. I definitely could have done better.
Gotcha Not sure you’ll be allowed to do side stuff plus if you wanna make progress in amazon you’ll prob need to put those hours towards that If I were you - I would pass and interview again when you can make l5 or try l6 and get downleveled then potentially
Worl for FB in Seattle. You will be able to save some real money
I'm an L4 at Amazon (new grad) and am happy but would be miserable if I had been a tech lead role and were moved to L4. You will not get much of a say in architectural decisions: there is a pretty clear hierarchy and the senior l5/l6 gives you very small features to work on that are well defined. Maybe they would treat you better because you have industry experience, idk.
Hey, thanks I appreciate the input. I was worried that the sort of hierarchical position would hinder me, but I was also hoping to speak up in the regard in an attempt to minimize my time until a promotion to L5
Wait and get hired at the right level. Otherwise you will be miserable thinking you should have been an L5. This happened to me but L5 to L6
Since you were down leveled you could Probably get to an L5 pretty quickly once you join and kill it. You have got to get a good brand early enough on your resume. 2 years at amazon and you will be in a different league. You can always go back to your consulting gig anytime. My 2 cents.
Thanks. I definitely see that. Off of a lot of Amazon linked in I see many people spending years at L4 before L5. Is it better for me to wait 6 months and reinterview at L5? Or take L4 now and possibly wait years to be promoted. And even more years to be at my current role level.
L4 to L5 shouldn’t take more than 2 years. You could try getting it much sooner than that. Only L6 is senior, so maybe you aren’t able to differentiate their levels unless you are internal?