I am currently considering switching teams within Google as a result of several projects being cancelled/no growth opportunities but have also received an offer from Apple at a higher level. (ICT3 over L3). The work sounds very interesting and I think I would greatly enjoy it. Would it be a good step for me to take the offer or would I be at loss on the long run. I am optimizing for learning and career growth, not necessarily salary. Any advice is most welcome.
How long have you been at Google?
A bit over a year now.
Yeah, shoot for ICT4. else I will be reluctant to take Apple offer at ICT3, especially after working at Google. Also make sure you like the team at Apple, if at all you take the offer.
Less than 3 years of experience, L3 at Google (==ict2) and you want him to aim for ict4?? Unless he is joining some shitty org at Apple, there is no way he can get in as ict4
I have seen fresh grads/Phds with 1-2 years experience (and that too in not so promising startups) getting ICT4 positions. So it depends on the role, matching skill sets, etc.
Could you give me some advice in terms of how to negotiate that? I know how to negotiate salaries but not so much levels.
Try to get from the recruiter or hiring manager the exact performance expectations for an ICT4 and explain how you already meet these expectations. Don’t let HR screw you by the number of years of experience, they mean nothing whatsoever
Thank you! I can definitely do that. All of my work is public so I can freely talk about it.
Software team or hardware team? If it is hardware team, stay away as far as possible
You are getting some terrible and unrealistic advice here. ICT4 at Apple is L5 at Google. You are L3 now with ~3 years of experience. ICT3 is the CORRECT level for you at Apple (L4 at Google). If the org actually gives you ict4, it’s probably some shitty org at Apple!
Why just make it a lateral move when switching jobs?
L5 at Google == ICT4 at Apple L4 at Google == ICT3 at Apple OP is L3 at Google. ICT3 at Apple is already a level change for him. ICT4 will be skipping a level! With total of 3 yrs experience, ict4 is just unrealistic and almost impossible.
I would never work at Apple. I interviewed for the Siri team and the paranoia they have at Apple is astounding. My lunch buddy worked on the Apple watch integration. For the whole project until it was announced, he couldn't say anything to the other Siri team members. None of them knew about the Apple watch or what he was working on for about two years. Two years. How can you work at a company that actively silences you and stifles collaboration?
I disagree that Apple ICT3 is strictly greater than Google L3. You can make ICT3 less than a year after joining. OP has one year experience, so this is a lateral move... NOT an upward move. ICT3 is NOT as good as L4.
Would you recommend aiming for an ICT4 then? What exactly is the job spec difference? I have a clear distinction between level expectations within Google but I don't know what each band means in other companies.
Seconded, know friends getting l4 and ict4 at the same time
Try to negotiate an ICT4 offer. You get more perks. Which team are you joining? Hopefully not IS&T
Where is the bar for ICT4 being set and how does one negotiate that? I don't have many years of experience (slightly below 3) but have driven several projects to completion and have worked with multiple teams at once.
What perks do ICT 4 get?