Significance of SWE Ladder @Google

Google
cmendemon

Go to company page Google

cmendemon
May 19, 2021 21 Comments

Hi Everyone,

**Problem**
My manager recently gave me a CME at my current level (L3) citing to the fact that my code hasn't caused any impact for Google because it's not productionised.

However, I feel I've worked fairly independently and also on the problems with L+1 level difficulty.
So, an EE should have been more fitting.

**Root Cause**
Last cycle I was involved with other tasks(PRD, design-HLD/LLD, code complete) and there was just no time to productionise anything.

*Promo Discussion*
* When I tried to do a retrospective with him by going over the SWE Ladder for L+1 (L4) level, I was told that all the points were for guidance and not to be treated verbatim while measuring performance. Is this true ?

* I was also told that
** Since I'm not a fresh L3 (5 YOE), so such level of independence doesn't suffice.
** I should pick up 20% projects or Bug fixes to have other tech contributions
** My visibility was not enough
** He doesn't see a push in me for getting promoted

I feel that my contributions far exceeds the trivial points on which I was being let down upon.
How should I view this situation as I feel kinda undervalued with my current mindset ?

All my code is expected to productionise this cycle, but I don't feel like working with such a manager whose only way of getting things done is by constantly devaluing his reportees on such trivial things and keeping them on the hook.
Should I think about changing team anyway ?

Google
21

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 TOP 21 Comments
  • You went for a year without releasing anything to production and want to get promoted?
    Maybe google is just a lot different than other places...
    May 19, 2021 2
    • Google
      cmendemon

      Go to company page Google

      cmendemon
      OP
      The cycle is for the last 6 months.
      I'm not asking to get promoted, I know it's too soon.
      All I am desiring is to get an EE rating.
      Do you still think I'm getting ahead of myself here ?
      May 19, 2021
    • I havent worked at Google, so can only speak to how it works here. But even for large greenfield you’d be expected to have something basic in production in a few months
      May 20, 2021
  • Change team ASAP!
    May 19, 2021 1
  • Google
    mtRS28

    Go to company page Google

    mtRS28
    Don't change teams. You need to show impact to get promoted, not just do the work. Get your code to production, show it's useful, get promoted, and then change teams if you want to.
    May 19, 2021 3
    • Google
      mtRS28

      Go to company page Google

      mtRS28
      Perhaps, and not too sure about the "cannot show impact" bit. It is likely however, that changing teams is not going to increase OPs promo chances when compared to getting what they already have into production.
      It doesn't matter if it's the manager's "fault"(with no guidance) or the OPs "fault"(lack of initiative); the result is the same-- no promo. I think most responses to this post are ways to address that.
      May 19, 2021
    • Google
      cmendemon

      Go to company page Google

      cmendemon
      OP
      Some hard hitting truths there.

      I didn't have any time to productionise anything because I was so pre-occupied with the design and coding.

      I believe designing and independent implementation is a L4 level delivery, right ?
      It's not about promo, it's about an EE rating.

      Changing teams is definitely going to derail the promo process.

      Am I asking too much here ?
      May 19, 2021
  • Facebook / Eng
    OkZoomers

    Go to company page Facebook Eng

     OkZoomers
    You realize the manager alone can’t just promote you. A committee decides, and your manager is saying he doesn’t see your promo packet as strong enough yet for the committee
    May 19, 2021 4
    • Google / Eng
      seakir

      Go to company page Google Eng

       seakir
      OP is just online lingo for the "original poster" as an L3 with 1 year in, you should definitely figure out a path to promo. Sounds like your manager is not interested in your growth.
      What did peer review look like in your perf?
      May 20, 2021
    • Google
      cmendemon

      Go to company page Google

      cmendemon
      OP
      My mentor expressed concerns about me not diving deep much in the initial part of the cycle (first few months).
      This lead to him investing his time in intervening and get a couple things done.
      In the later part of the cycle, my performance greatly improved according to him and he told my manager that I'm performing better than my current level.
      May 21, 2021
  • Google / Eng
    seakir

    Go to company page Google Eng

     seakir
    1. This should have been on the Google channel
    2. You have a bad manager, change teams
    3. As an L3 your impact should ON the project not impact OF the project
    4. SWE ladder is the most important thing. That's literally what you use to structure your packet. You need to check most of the boxes in SWE ladder table.
    May 19, 2021 2
    • Google
      cmendemon

      Go to company page Google

      cmendemon
      OP
      Very nicely summed up.

      1. Google channel ?
      i already tagged it with "Google".
      am i missing anything here ?

      4. He didn't let me walk him through the SWE ladder points.
      He tried to escape it by saying that the ladder is only to be used for guidance and when I insisted he tried telling me how can I achieve on those points in future.

      Also, he specifically asked me if I was okay with the CME rating during my perf feedback and he told me that I might have been expecting EE.

      Do you think it will be a good idea to change teams now given that I have completed all my work and I just need to onboard clients now ?

      I'm thinking of syncing up with my mentor, skip level manager and getting clarity from the swe-ladder mailing list, before I start reaching out to other teams.
      May 19, 2021
    • Google / Eng
      seakir

      Go to company page Google Eng

       seakir
      If you really did all the good work that you say you did, change teams. Sounds like your manager doesn't want to put any extra effort.
      There's a Google employee only channel which would be a more appropriate place to post this.
      May 20, 2021