MS offer

Amazon / Eng
mQuY73

Go to company page Amazon Eng

mQuY73
Jul 6, 2020 30 Comments

Hot on the tail of this thread: https://www.teamblind.com/post/8QTYPFOd

An offer has been made:

L65 (instead of 64)
comp 365
base 200
bonus 100 (over 2 yrs)
RSUs 300k (over 4 yrs)
annual bonus up to 40% (of base?)
annual RSU refresh up to 72k

But it doesn't work out to 365. That first year is 325 (annual bonus pays out well into the following year), the next year is slightly more than 365, the following 2 years are like 30-35k under, and the remaining years are like almost 100k under. (All of that assumes hitting mid-bonus/refresh; even hitting perfectly on those would still bring long-term numbers ~15k under comp.)

Any MS vets have insights to the quoted comp vs. actual calculated numbers? What prevents the two MS cliffs? (Does the base amount adjust? Annual refresh amount adjust?)

Other than the questions about how MS comp works, how does the offer look overall? (365 generally looks good when compared to L65 on levels.fyi, it's the highest data point there, but I am not seeing the math work out to that.)

AMZN L6 SDE, 25 YOE

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TOP 30 Comments
  • Google
    AxsG80

    Go to company page Google

    AxsG80
    Man recruiters r full of shit. Your cash bonus is 20% of base which is 40k and refreshers are about 36k for most. U can’t prevent the cliff unless u leave as refreshers don’t compensate for it.
    Jul 6, 2020 7
    • Microsoft / Eng
      justme007

      Go to company page Microsoft Eng

      justme007
      SSA for that level, just based on performance (not retention based on external offer) can range from 50 to 100k. I got 60k as L65 and I’m a top performer. I’m not killing myself, just making sure to have scope, involvement in multiple projects, provide leadership and always get stuff done on time. Management is not unreasonable and doesn’t ask for an arm and a leg.
      Jul 8, 2020
    • Amazon / Eng
      mQuY73

      Go to company page Amazon Eng

      mQuY73
      OP
      Ah, interesting, thanks for that info! Ok, based on what you are saying, the three yearly bonuses (crash/RSU/SSA), if one were to get mid-range on each of those, the long-term comp seems to be 326. That's still a bit under 365. (But max would be 452.) So, I guess the moral of the story is either just take the lower comp after a few years, kill yourself to maybe get the full bonuses, or start brushing up on LC after the first couple years. :)
      Jul 9, 2020
  • Costco
    NoGrazing

    Go to company page Costco

    NoGrazing
    You don’t get MS compensation very well.

    1. It’s not a RSU refresher - there’s zero guarantee you will get more shares after you sign. If you join at the wrong time you get no stock / bonus / merit increase for your first year. And yes those are the terms MS uses, not Amazon.

    2. As a new employee with a high level of shares you likely will see much lower allocations at “rewards” time. That’s MS parlance as well. Again it’s based on your performance and rating by your M1/M2.

    3. If you don’t meet level 65 expectations, which are actually quite high, be ready for a sharp change in compensation. And I’m serious - I’ve seen people come in at 65 and bomb out their first year; especially if the post was at 64 and they upleveled to 65. The org can 1 up or 1 down from a post to get the right candidate and TC spend.

    3. At MS you can’t expect a direct correlation between YOE and level / pay. I know many with the same years of experience as what you posted and they are still level 63/64. I’ve seen some with less that are 66. Your “impact” is going to be what will help you meet target.

    Good luck. Make sure you set expectations quickly with your director, have your first skip level meeting within a month and don’t assume a “first year get out of jail free” pass.
    Jul 11, 2020 3
    • Costco
      NoGrazing

      Go to company page Costco

      NoGrazing
      Meeting with your skip level gets you on their radar. Good Optics / visibility is key to having a good career at MS. As a 65 you are expected to do things with your own initiative - not others just feeding you. Speaking with your skip is one example. Keep in mind you should have an agenda - it’s not just “howdy, how was your weekend?”. If you need others feeding you items that is 62/Low 63 and that will not work. And to your point on not focusing purely on a deliverable - you are evaluated on how well you help OTHERS now. This can be anything from QA of their work, helping teach them how to use code you may have made, etc. If you lock yourself in an office or stay at your desk (open space) or seldom meet with other teams (wfh, teams), your management will have a hard time quantifying that aspect. This ties back to my first recommendation of getting from your M1 expectations and then learning from working with your peers / their managers what is “really” expected. These managers all have consistent training as to what they are to be evaluating and the behaviors you are evaluated against are on HRweb. Read those as well and start acting like 66. The sooner you do that, the better you look for promo in the years to come. And don’t expect promo with a year or two under the belt. Promo is based on budget, need and your ability.
      Jul 13, 2020
    • Amazon / Eng
      mQuY73

      Go to company page Amazon Eng

      mQuY73
      OP
      Ok, this is some great insight. Coming from a gamedev background, where one really just works on the project, this is a huge difference in approaching a career. Interesting about visibility and WFH since we all are and will be working from home at least through end of the year, and if it goes longer, I am not sure how that.....impacts.....L65+ roles when they are supposed to be very proactive in searching out influence/impact/visibility. I mean, it *can* be done online, of course, but that's a much bigger challenge.
      Jul 13, 2020
  • Amazon
    blindina

    Go to company page Amazon

    blindina
    What is your TC right now? With the stock pumping up, you might be better off to stick around at Amzn for a year, maybe two or you sick of it?
    Jul 6, 2020 7
    • Amazon
      blindina

      Go to company page Amazon

      blindina
      I watched one person on sister team working on L6-L7 promo. The effort was beyond human, it’s all you, no help from management. Worked 60-70 hrs per week for almost 3 years. The only thing it was good for is to use his new PE title to get 60% comp bump at another place. He left. I am not sure I want to repeat this.
      Jul 6, 2020
    • Amazon / Eng
      mQuY73

      Go to company page Amazon Eng

      mQuY73
      OP
      Wow, ok, that is the insane thing at Amazon. I think that PE title is huge for leveraging; how much did he better his situation by taking that title on the road? That many hours for ~3 years, though. I hope he was single during that time. Even with the MS down-comp'ing, I feel that PE title would be big to have for future opportunities.
      Jul 6, 2020
  • 25 yoe and L6
    Jul 6, 2020 1
    • Amazon / Eng
      mQuY73

      Go to company page Amazon Eng

      mQuY73
      OP
      Yup, I'm not happy about it either, and mis-leveling is one of the reasons I'm leaving. Was part of an acqui-hire, and three of us that came in, once we learned the levels, we sure we would have come in at L7 if we came in as individuals, but L7 interviewing was not on the table for the acquhire; just L5 and L6. All of us been around since the 80s and 90s. Not sure any of us could come in higher than L7, though, since we enjoy programming and are not looking to be managers/execs (sadly).
      Jul 6, 2020
  • OP, you should search about this group in the Microsoft forums ( if you have a friend )
    Jul 9, 2020 2