What's the difference? With 10 YOE I feel I should be pushing for 66 but it seems they are only willing to offer 65. How good is this?
There is near zero chance of getting a L66 offer. L65 is “Principal” and most do not make it. L65 is a career level for really solid IC devs. 10 YOE alone is nowhere near enough to warrant a L66 offer.
I'm comparing this against Amazon's SDE3 and Indeed's TF4.
Amazon's SDE3 is roughly mapped to 64. There's some overlap with 65, but it is a bit of a stretch
Isn’t 64 terminal for most developers?
Forget 66, unless you had proven track record, the impact and you can continue, I would suggest you to take 65 in higher range of the pay and make impact and blast off to next levels
How easy or hard is it to get promoted from 65 to 66 as a EM? Is 65 a respected/influential role within and outside of Microsoft?
Like someone said above… there are so many top at 65 &66… so your competing with highly influential and connected people. Unless you coming in with strong connections getting any level above is depends on the opportunity lined up for you and the impact you make
For context, I recently received a 64 offer at around 7 YOR. Can anyone elaborate on what the concrete differences between 65 and 66 are? 68 is partner, so I don’t really understand why OP can negotiate to 66.
Even though the offer is for 65, the comp package is for 68.
How much is the offered compensation? And did they offer you a good package because you are coming from Google?
You should definitely push for 66. Base pays are mostly comparable, but 66 gets far better stock refreshes. I made the mistake of accepting 65... the recruiter told me that 66 has higher bar at year end reviews to even make 100% rewards.. and I will be 'setting myself for failure' if I push for 66 (apparently the hiring manager was kind of ok for 66 - but the offer rollout would probably be delayed had I pushed and sign on would be reduced, I agreed for the 65 offer since they said they can roll it out immediately, with significant sign-on) In hind sight, I should have pushed for 66. This was 2 years ago, and I am still 65 - while the team, work and wlb are good, it is unfortunately a well established team and hard to make majorly impact-full change, with random 'quality improvement' months making it very hard to do feature work. This makes it hard to build a case or promotion. The ongoing pandemic also did not help.
Any suggestions on how to push for it? Recruiter mentioned stuff you said, about setting me up for success etc
I’ll say this from experience…the recruiter is not going to know what you’ll have to do, they really have no ties to the org, other than the fact they know peoples names. They don’t know what we do, they don’t know the politics, they don’t know anything but how to sell you on coming to msft. What they are telling you is all canned responses. Recruiters at msft aren’t fte’s in the orgs they work with. It’s a heavy volume position. Ask your recruiter if they’re part of the org as a full time employee. All I’ve worked with are contractors.
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Manager or IC? IMO it depends. I’d expect MINIMUM L65 for 10 YOE for anyone. But 66 within 10-11 years has felt like a better goal, but in many groups it’s harder to achieve without being a manager. TLDR I think you’re right to push for L66 if you’re ambitious and high performer.
As a hiring manager, I strongly disagree with this. I have not seen a single offer higher than L65 unless they had a similar level at a competitor. Most people do not make L66 in their career.
How easy or hard is it to get promoted from 65 to 66 as a EM? Is 65 a respected/influential role within and outside of Microsoft?