Tech IndustryJul 17, 2019
MarvellkuuD23

Microsoft: Are linux engineers second class citizens?

From their offer it certainly looks like the case Yoe: 13 with open source contributions( not marvell) TC: 300k (Bay Area) Microsoft offer for L63: 160k/100k 4 yrs vesting/30k Location: Seattle This is infact revised offer but I haven’t told them my current yet. But really upset at this offer. I mean yoe, interview performance all means nothing. Btw, got interview feedback ‘very positive’ after 2 days. Got HM’s email showering all sort of praises for my great interview performance, but then this offer. And no great WLB, other perks cannot offset this lowball offer. My majority of interview was behavioral. I was manager in previous job. Have direct reports in current job. Got fair number of LC mediums and got asked painfully deep linux and embedded questions, upto different ISAs and ABIs differences between different archs. What more???? Other Thoughts please!!!

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Microsoft ., Jul 17, 2019

Looks like L63?

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

Yes

Microsoft ., Jul 17, 2019

Did job description say senior or principal?

Google gentig Jul 17, 2019

Linux kernel engineer here. Your problem is mostly unrelated to Linux - most Open source contribution lacks tech depth (compared to top-tier commercial alternatives). Another problem is that to exceed 300k some sort of leadership is required, and OSS unfortunately doesn't give you that kind of experience. Tbh there's no significant contribution to be done in my field... They are either solved decades ago or proved inherently difficult.

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

My majority of interview was behavioral. I was manager in previous job. Have direct reports in current job. Got fair number of LC mediums and got asked painfully deep linux and embedded questions, upto different ISAs and ABIs differences between different archs. What more????

Two Sigma angelist Jul 17, 2019

Unless you talk to the right team, Microsoft pays fairly lower than other similar software companies.

Two Sigma angelist Jul 17, 2019

In my experience, OSS contributions are not seriously taken as major factor. It’s a plus point

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

I don't care about OSS. What matters is my embedded experience with various archs and interview performance.

Microsoft lbez12 Jul 17, 2019

Is that 300 tc in Cali vs ~250 in WA? Or are you not currently in Cali? I don’t think it has anything to do with Linux, just how your interview went. If ppl on the loop thought you could be 64/65, you would have had a higher offer and level.

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

I'm in Cali, microsoft offer for Seattle.

Red Hat johnniewic Jul 17, 2019

+1 google bloke. I’m SRE and I understand your pain. I’ve started to code more and take roles that are “systems software engineer” type. Now I make similar(if not more than) swe TC. But quite honestly, pure Linux experts are hard to find and most of the companies at the moment don’t need that expertise. Yes it helps to debug stuff faster but the extra time spent is really not worth(not noticed atleast) the company’s time and expense. One of the main reason is that OS’s are more stable now and the issues are more around horizontal scaling/clustering which kinda wouldn’t need in depth Linux expertise imo, but helps a little.

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

No offense but please get a bigger perspective. The fact that you think OS are stable so issues are more horizontal speaks volume about what you think of OS but thats just your point of view and I can tell you that its blatantly wrong, more so that indepth linux expertise is not needed. I'd not expect someone coming from RedHat to say so but then again, you're experience seems to be pigeonholed. All sorts of offload engines, baremetal servers, applications, VMs etc are some examples. Its linux, microsoft was forced to sink or swim.

Red Hat johnniewic Jul 17, 2019

Ok, I could add in more details to support my statement but nvm, I agree with you. Atm most services are managed services, PaaS, etc, so the company problems are more around “how to get it to scale and be reliable” rather than “how to implement this stuff on infra”, again this is a generalized statement, jfyi.. Linux expertise is needed I agree, but that’s just you and me companies don’t think so yet. Also, just as a Linux guy you’re not really a builder, you just know stuff and put it to use rather than come up with a custom tool/algo of your own, if you aren’t coding.

Red Hat johnniewic Jul 17, 2019

Oh btw.. it values in companies like FB and some fintech companies that are looking for expert Sys admins with some security knowledge.

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

I'm embedded engineer, so...

Google wkkjy Jul 17, 2019

Linux development engineers are backend engineers. If you got bwtter at leetcoding, you should have no problem getting a FANG offer. I am sayimg this as a backend engineer who has worked at FB and G. TC 350k.

Google wkkjy Jul 17, 2019

This assumes you do C/C++ development and not sysadmin work.

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

I'm embedded engineer.

Maxim Integrated tILo28 Jul 17, 2019

Location?

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

Currently at Bay area, offer is for Seattle.

Apple KGHP41 Jul 17, 2019

Your problem is that you’re not negotiating the right way. When they came back with numbers why didn’t you tell them your current comp? Did you get competing offers? If not, those are the two reasons why they’re giving you the crap offer.

Marvell kuuD23 OP Jul 17, 2019

When they first came back with lowball, I gave them expectations and hints that my other offers are going to be in my expected range. But they thought I was bluffing and gave me the offer I shared in post. Now I told them my current as well as new offer. But the point is how much you value a potential employee and whether yoe means shit to you. 13yoe and 200K, really?

Apple KGHP41 Jul 17, 2019

Why are you getting all emotional about it? It’s just business. If you don’t like their offer and feel they’re under valuing your skills, don’t accept it. Go elsewhere.