In short, I've struggled to find relevant advice about this type of situation online and hope the conversations resulting from this can help others in my shoes in the future. Briefly, the company I'm referring to is a unicorn fintech company. I was the first hire for the data org at a start-up, at the time there were about 30 employees in the company and I had just graduated from university. My responsibilities were split between analysis and data engineering (ETLs and such). I built out large parts of our data infra (ETL framework, containerization, CI/CD, dashboarding server, etc) and even built some very important internal tools. Not much actual ML work until recently but with the engineering skill I picked up, a lot of things have become easy. Aside from the tech I also built and structured the data org. I brought on our head of data engineering and many additional data scientists. Fast forward 3 years and I have dedicated an immense amount into restructuring, hiring, and just in general building and maximizing potential for the data org. We now have over 30 data scientists (some are ML Engineers) and over 80 data/python engineers. The distinction for data/python is another discussion. Given all this I'm currently a Lead DS, was hoping to become a director or progress into a leadership role. Our founders + leadership team would rather hire a very experienced person externally to take the Head of DS role which I completely agree with. However now I'm left with essentially no options for career progression at current company - even after some discussions with our CEO. Recently I was reassigned to report into another Lead DS than the CTO which was really demotivating, in fact after reaching out to understand why this happened I got no response. I'm struggling to figure out the next best step. Has anyone else experienced something similar at a start-up? For example getting layered or just blocked on progression in favour of an external hire? Did you stay or just go for another opportunity? Was the next opportunity better? YOE - 3 TC - Cannot disclose as colleagues may identify me, however I will say my base is trash and the only incentive have been my stock options.
I think it is fair for you to request to be a manager of a small team. If they don't agree, just move on to the next job with better TC with real money.
Yeah I actually attempted to do this prior to this review period. However I always felt there was some hidden blocker - almost like behind the curtains they didn't want me to manage a team.
Your boss and company owners want result. They weighed their options and decided to rely on track record vs bet on someone who’s willing to punch above his/her weight. It’s a free market. You’ve presumably built a solid skillset. You can ask, but if not, you can pack up and take it elsewhere with greener pasture. It’s a free country. Management (ie. being a director) is a totally different muscle from the technical one. You will make mistakes. You need to find someplace or someone who’s willing to give you that chance. When you do, the other person reporting to you will go to Blind and post another version of this thread.
Haha well said. Yes I know and I've considered that I'm probably underqualified for that track. Though I would like to get some guidance to help me learn. I feel the company currently also lacks the ability to provide that guidance, so all the more reason to explore options.
You did a lot of technical work, and you set a lot of hiring and business processes in motion. Managing, mentoring, and motivating a team is a very different skill. You might be good at it, or you might not. Personally, I'd ask to manage one person in your current company so you can at least develop that skill before expecting to get a team reporting to you.
Kudos on what you’ve done so far. I can 100% understand why you feel unmotivated if you’re going from all that to reporting to someone else and not having people to manage etc. All startups are a sh*tshow when it comes to structure, organization, career advancement etc. It’s worth it if the $ follows. Here is some perspective: you worked at this startup right out of college and & have been figuring things on your own. If you still have the chance to learn and do, regardless of what the role is, then stay. If you feel like that’s gone, then leave (assuming your options will come with you).
Thanks! There is potential to do some work but at the consequence of following the direction of some new hire DS who I actually interviewed and hired to work alongside. The skills I hope to develop are leadership & managerial which I don't think I'll learn if reporting to a first time manager.
Yes! Leadership & excellent managerial skills are priceless. You can learn them by working for an awesome manager in some big label firm. You can also get some mentors specifically in this area.
Vest and go to another startup as VP/Director/Leader. Sounds like you certainly have the experience to do it. You could probably get a nice bump in base plus stock options which will help diversify your startup-risk.
You have to move
I've been at a few startups where ICs grew into managers. All of them sucked at it and were the cause of a lot of problems with the culture.
Wouldn't be demotivated by reporting in to somebody other than the CTO per se. This is the order of things in a startup. But they should hire an experienced leader for the org and put you (a Lead DS who built much of what they have from scratch) under that experienced leader, so you get to see an experienced data leader in action. I would position it that way. Sounds like maybe your current reporting situation is temporary so wouldn't fret too much. If it's time to move on, then move on - if you need to roll out another year or two to vest, then look for other ways to drive key business impact regardless of career growth. You likely need 1-2 years more experience before you could move to FAANG as a senior level.
Thank you for the advice! I'm almost fully vested by now so that's made the decision process a bit easier. I would very much like to follow under an experienced leader but having tried to hire one, I've noticed our office location is really impacting the potential talent (many of these pro data folks won't move there and accept the lower salaries that come with it). I could easily find such a leader elsewhere and work under them while building more experience to dive into FAANG.
I'm currently in a very similar situation with a combined 12 YOE between testing and consulting work. I'm starting the process of casting a wide net, and looking elsewhere for new opportunities. It's been hard having helped build the company because you get attached, but you have to know when to fold and put yourself first.
Stock options don’t count for much. If your base is trash leave. You’ve learned a lot in 3 years and they’ve failed to make you feel sufficiently appreciated. Take what you know and go to another small startup but with the leverage of having done it all before, and make it clear you have managerial plans. Plenty of startups will hire you into that role.
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Sadly, it happens a lot, both in startups and in big corps.
Interesting, what do you feel is the mentality behind this in big corps? Do they just feel some external hire will bring fresh perspective and change things? I have seen this happen for the C-suite at big corps which has in some cases provided great value. Just wondering if the same holds with directors and VPs.
It happens all the way down to first line managers. It’s hard for me to speak for the decision maker but I think it also involves trust and biases. If the CEO doesn’t trust you and now feels bothered by your frequent request then maybe it’s time to move on. Basically he doesn’t know / value your contributions.