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Hi, Update: Thanks for lots of advice! I am over this level up thing now. I think it is just the way it is, or I was simply naive that I can get similar level like in US. I won’t try to negotiate, probably in vain anyway. Update: Got L4 at Google and accepted it. Update: I saw some confusion, I am not aiming for L3 at indeed. I just want to go from SDE II (L2) to Senior (L2). my recruiter told me Indeed break down L2 into two levels. https://www.indeed.jobs/career/JobDetail/Senior-Software-Engineer-Personalization/17979 I was applied for the above, receiving an SDE II is not good news for me. Basically SDE II is lower range of L2 and Senior is the upper. that’s what I was told. I have two offers from Indeed and Google (both japan) Yoe: 6, L63 at Microsoft Indeed: SDE II (TC: 17.6M Yen first 3 years, 22.3M 4th year, LTips 1.6 estimation. base 12.5M, aniversary bonus 3.25M first 3 years, 50K Ltips vest in 4th year, 10-15% target bonus). Revised. Google: L4. Slightly better TC. I thought my interview at Indeed went well, but they said even though I was able to answer all questions in System Design, it lacks depth, so I was only offered SDE II, not senior. The director of the team I am applying really likes me, he even set up a call after the interview to persuade me to join. He also mentioned he and my recruiter got me the maxium offer for SDE II. I tried to push, said how about redo SD interview, since I care about level, but they refused. That’s was a week ago. In days, I will have offer from Google, which is obviously not bad. Still, part of me wants to join Indeed since I believe I can make more impact there compare with Google. I am willing to walk away from either offer, since each has its own advantages and disadvantages? Should I or can I use Google offer as a leverage to make Indeed level up me? I only care about title, I am willing to take an offer which pays less initially as long as the gap is not 30%. Anyone experience this level up negotiation, especially with Indeed. Thanks.
I would say don't be so over confident about Google offer. I have see many candidates who had strong hire feedback from interviewers ended up getting reject from HC.
Ok, let’s assume I will pass. I hope you are ok with that. Two managers from Google already set up phone call with me for team matching, even before HC result. Let’s focus on my question, please!
Indeed tends to down level and be inflexible about it. Good luck trying, but I would not be optimistic about having any success. I’d just cut your losses if level matters to you, you can always work at Indeed some other time.
I see. Thanks for your insider’s opinion. How do you like Indeed? Are you excited working there? During my interviews with Indeed, I felt the excitement from interviewers when talking about what they do. That’s why I really want to join.
Not at Indeed anymore, did not like it.
I would say that culture at Indeed Tokyo is great. As far as technical aspect, yes it’s not cutting edge but that means people who want to make real impact they really can. Those who are followers don’t typically thrive at Indeed.
What makes you say that about indeed Tokyo culture? Curious because I’m here too
Exactly why I prefer Indeed to Google. I want to feel the impact of my work. Still, there are other factors to concern. Thanks for the comment.
Could you please break down the indeed offer into base, bonus and stock. Any sign on?
Updated my post.
I’ve seen a few people from Microsoft get swe2 when they were 63. I don’t think you’ll have a chance getting to swe3. Also, I’m pretty sure indeed actually pays better in Tokyo than Google. I know someone who went from Indeed Tokyo to Google Tokyo and actually took less money.
Thanks, Got u. It seems the general consensus is close to impossible. Probably I won’t give it a try. As for salary, it depends on level, but not what I want to discuss, so never mind.
Don’t worry, there are a ton of places to make impact in Tokyo. If you’re good, you’ll be able to get a promo fast. Just go to a team that can give you those visible projects.
If I were you I wouldn't even waste my time with indeed, since you're confident in getting google offer, just go to google
Thanks. I will take your advice.
@op - was 1.6 the valuation given for 2020 ltips ?
Yes. That what I mean. 1.6 is estimated for 2024 when I would receive it.
Indeed SWE II is Senior SWE. Indeed SWE III is Staff Engineer. IC4 is effectively our max level for IC, and that is Principal / Technical Fellow title. We have fewer levels than other tech companies, which is why some candidates may get confused. I do hope we fix that by adding more levels, but that has not been decided yet. IMO, look at the comp, look at the team and the impact, then make a decision. Good luck!
I think you mean to say swe II includes senior but it’s a bi stretch to say L2 at Indeed == senior. Same with L3, sure top L3s might be staff elsewhere plenty of L3s are just people that have been at Indeed a long time but would not be staff at a normal company.
On the internal websites, SWE 2s are automatically flagged as Senior and swe 3s as Staff title. Not saying that corresponds to senior or staff at other companies, just clarifying what titles indeed offers. Also, keep in mind that swe 2 is the 4th level in the ic ladder, after sde1, sde2 and swe 1.
At Indeed you can be re-leveled (both up or down) within a year of hiring if you were clearly mis-leveled. Of course making that happen would depend a lot on your manager and you really kicking butt right out of the gate. Just be aware that it is possible.
Good luck with that. Why do you only care about title? You need to get over this stereotype.
This probably will go off topic. But my short answer is that I cannot. I am senior at MS now, going for SDE II at Indeed really sounds like a demotion, especially I have a Google L4/L5 as competing. As for money, Google probably will pay more at the beginning, but considering growth, I am not sure how it will pan out in the long term. To me, anything close to 20M yen is almost the same. I want to grow more technically and also open to management.