Some Amazon managers say they hire people they intend to fire later just to meet their turnover goal

Amazon
hWnc48

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hWnc48
May 19, 2021 20 Comments

Definitely the most toxic company I've ever worked for.

https://www.businessinsider.com/top-stories-amazon-hire-to-fire-james-charles-lawsuit-wells-fargo-exodus-2021-5

The practice is internally called "hire to fire," according to three Amazon managers.

Inside Amazon managers' "hire to fire" practice
Amazon has a goal to get rid of a certain percentage of employees every year - and three managers told Insider they felt so much pressure to meet the goal that they hired people just to fire them:

"We might hire people that we know we're going to fire, just to protect the rest of the team," one manager said.

The practice is informally called "hire to fire," in which managers hire people, internally or externally, they intend to fire within a year, just to help meet their annual turnover target, called unregretted attrition (URA). A manager's URA target is the percentage of employees the company wouldn't regret seeing leave, one way or the other.

The existence of the practice in at least some parts of the company shows how Amazon's system of requiring managers to hit a target attrition goal every year can foster controversial norms and practices.

#pip #amazon #aws

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TOP 20 Comments
  • Visa
    vgmd87

    Go to company page Visa

    vgmd87
    I have seen this post earlier also on blind. Since you are from Amazon, have you seen such stuff?
    May 19, 2021 4
    • Amazon
      hWnc48

      Go to company page Amazon

      hWnc48
      OP
      Yes, that place is full of hardcore politics. I've seen people put on pip, and I've also seen the "inner circle" to get protected by the manager.

      We all know that politics are in all corporations, but in that place they take it to a psychopath level.
      May 19, 2021
    • Amazon
      Amz95

      Go to company page Amazon

      Amz95
      Yes working on moving on. Managers do protect their inner circle and many things come to play here. Managers also do trading eg if they want to look good in eyes of leadership and peers to progress their agenda to get promoted erc, they will sacrifice smbdy on their team rather than asking another manager to take a hit. In the end you are just a number for them
      May 19, 2021
  • Amazon
    fWns87

    Go to company page Amazon

    fWns87
    Well let me give you a different perspective here. I've been with Amazon for ~7 yrs now. Interned, became FTE, now an L6 and soon L7. I worked in India and Seattle, having changed teams thrice.
    At the staying of my career, I worked with an incompetent manager. They weren't a bad person like you'll hear in all the posts, just technically incompetent. They were let go in a year. Post that, I've always worked with good managers, and seen good managers (across my team and sister org), had access to some amazing mentors, all still in Amazon, and good teammates. My work hours have always been good, and taking time off is always encouraged. I interact with multiple engineers in our org, and AFAIK, never gotten a feedback of toxicity.
    Wrt pip etc, I've seen how no engineer were let go in our team when they were all performing appropriately, and how we have had a few cases where there was a clear expectation miss, and they were given early feedback.

    I can't comment on TC as that's pretty dependent on your time of joining and rating. It's not a system I'm supportive of, but it's worked out ok for me (~450-500k based on how rsu's swing). With the rsu growth, your performance just doesn't matter for TC which is weird.

    I'm sure there are bad teams/managers/work patterns. But Amazon is too big a company to make this general statement. If you are feeling stuck, get a mentor, move to a different team or leave the company (whatever works best for you and your constraints).
    May 19, 2021 3
    • Compass
      SEQO00

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      SEQO00
      It seems more like your team is an exception. Amazon has an underlying toxic culture that effects how teams are run and incentives are structured.
      May 20, 2021
    • Amazon
      fWns87

      Go to company page Amazon

      fWns87
      I won't disagree with anyone here. I'm quite sure there is toxicity and bad politics here given how many people talk about-faces it. I'm just giving the perspective from what I've seen across the orgs I've worked (I say orgs as I have interacted with multiple teams in my org).
      As for Amazon being too big to judge, your point is valid. We can definitely judge the company, but what I wanted to bring it is that there are good teams as well that you should look out for (and all are hiring). This reply is meant for those people who feel they are stuck and see no way out. I'm just hoping they consider some of these options I mentioned and move to greener pastures.
      May 20, 2021
  • Expedia Group
    anqnj

    Go to company page Expedia Group

    PRE
    Expedia Group
    BIO
    Level L
    anqnj
    SDM at Amazon are not fit for their roles. They don't know anything about leading an engineering team. They failed miserably outside of Amazon. It clearly implies Amazon has been a paradise for these incompetent, unskilled, and fake managers.
    May 19, 2021 0
  • Facebook / Finance
    ignoramus1

    Go to company page Facebook Finance

    ignoramus1
    How does this not create a toxic environment and competition amongst team members? What level does a manager need to be for this to apply and how large are their orgs typically?
    May 19, 2021 1
  • Amazon
    AzmX30

    Go to company page Amazon

    AzmX30
    I’ve been unhappy at AWS but to play devils advocate, why are there so many people here who’ve been around for 7-8 years?

    Have they just been successful in playing the political game and building empires or is the RSU refresh just that strong for them?
    May 19, 2021 1
    • Apple
      iFish

      Go to company page Apple

      iFish
      I heard Amazon doesn’t gives refresh every year and people get zero raise if the stock performed well. I am just shocked how Amazon hires and retains talent and manages to build products like AWS
      May 19, 2021