Offer VP product inputs.

Walmart
50plublnd

Go to company page Walmart

50plublnd
Nov 4, 2021 17 Comments

I am currently a Director with TC 520 and received an offer from a Series B startup valued $400 mm post money in Jun 2021

I have curent offer from Series B firm
300 cash
50 annual bonus
They low balled on equity 175k for 4 years which is almost 0.045%.

have competing offer from Amazon just under 500k but move to Seattle. I am also in advanced talk with a couple of startups in Seattle and Europe. One of the VP roles has me reporting to ex Lyft VP with a larger scope and team (7 person going to 14 next year)

All roles are VP Product in supply chain and logistics firms . I will not accept this offer for sure but I have 3 questions

1) I value equity at (last funding FMV in June 2021 - strike price ) * no of shares. Is that fair?
2) what is fair equity for VP product at series B which grew valuation by 3.5x in last 3 years?
3) Finally, is such low balling fair game in industry or should I just skip negotiations as it is either bad faith or huge expectation gap on part of leadership and wait for other offers?

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TOP 17 Comments
  • Walmart
    50plublnd

    Go to company page Walmart

    50plublnd
    OP
    It is VP product title. I will be leading their full Product team
    Nov 5, 2021 3
    • Walmart
      50plublnd

      Go to company page Walmart

      50plublnd
      OP
      It is a small PM team of 3-4. I have led PM groups of 10 with two managers and other non PM organizations of 45-50.

      They will be hiring VP Engineering too and we both will report to CTO. The company has been operation led rather than product led. I think they are just lowballing.

      I am turned off by that as it means they view hiring as transactional. Would they want me to be motivated to grow the business or rather think how I got tricked and how can I get out? Very short term thinking IMHO.
      Nov 6, 2021
    • New / Product
      metabull

      New Product

      metabull
      I agree. There are a lot of other opportunities out there where you will be valued more.
      Nov 6, 2021
  • New / Product
    HCuf80

    New Product

    HCuf80
    What is the company size in terms of employees?

    Is your title going to be VP? I didn’t realize Series B companies give that sort of titles for PMs even if they held that in big companies… if it is just PM perhaps you will get more equity as you expand your role into director or VP.
    Nov 4, 2021 3
    • New / Product
      HCuf80

      New Product

      HCuf80
      If you are optimistic about this company and you think it has the potential to be a $10B+ company in a few years, you should go for it. Once inside you will have a clearer picture and if you are able to prove yourself, you can negotiate more. Worst case you best 1/4 in a year and get out. The experience and brand will help you
      Nov 5, 2021
    • Walmart
      50plublnd

      Go to company page Walmart

      50plublnd
      OP
      I think if we bring some product focus on internal and external customer journey- automate, simplify and remove friction - it can grow 2-3x YOY. their current TAM is 100B in a fragmented industry. If we add a 2-4 other areas the TAM can go to 500-600B. Mostly fragmented. It will require a lot of hard work and luck but I want to be paid fairly for hard work and risk.
      Nov 6, 2021
  • New
    hugh jarse

    New

    hugh jarse
    1. no. value equity at $0. your value assumes some present liquidity. the stock will either skyrocket when it becomes liquid, or become 0. there’s no “current” value at all.

    you can’t “value” the equity. you can only compare to a median offer.

    for VP eng this is a disgusting low offer. for logistics I don’t know. I know logistics is critical function but don’t know how rarified the labor market is.

    this particular company valuation is low. they are not on the fast track. it is great for 5+ years ago valuation but these days hot companies are 1bn by series B. the 3.5 growth is good tho.

    offers really go by valuation not series. we use series as a proxy for median comparison. if you want to use valuation for comparison you need to subscribe to a salary service which is stupid expensive so only available to VCs and their portfolio companies, not to individuals. the information assymetry sucks. at VP level you might be able to get the comp data from the company tho.

    3. if this is a low ball offer just pass. again for logistics position i don’t know
    Nov 5, 2021 2
    • New
      hugh jarse

      New

      hugh jarse
      oic now you said VP product but in the field of logistics? if this is VP product i don’t think it matters what the problem domain is. i wouldn’t take less than 1.25% with single trigger. i almost have to think you mathed it wrong. this offer is insulting.
      Nov 5, 2021
    • Walmart
      50plublnd

      Go to company page Walmart

      50plublnd
      OP
      Thanks for the detailed response

      Would you counter or just pass? I asked if 50k per year or for 4 years.

      Can you elaborate on 1.25% with single trigger? Is it 1.25% of 400MM firm valuation and single trigger will be in case of acquisition?

      This was good info. You have no idea, how much I appreciate this!
      Nov 6, 2021
  • Google
    RifV35

    Go to company page Google

    RifV35
    Thought the established convention is VPs get 1% in stock
    Nov 5, 2021 2
  • Toptal / Strategy
    ILBBAICL1

    Go to company page Toptal Strategy

    ILBBAICL1
    Radically low offer on equity. I've had offers with triple that equity same stage/size.

    That said, the cash salary for a start up is pretty high. The question is how much do you value equity over base?
    Nov 5, 2021 2
    • Walmart
      50plublnd

      Go to company page Walmart

      50plublnd
      OP
      I would need 0.5% equity which is 10x current equity. Is that way off? At that equity, I can see the offer being equal to what I can expect in the market. Asking you as you mentioned 3x. Would 10x be too much for the title
      Nov 6, 2021
    • Google / Eng
      // comment

      Go to company page Google Eng

      // comment
      yes. 0.5% seems way off to me. 0.1% would be a great offer - but i doubt they’ll bump it up to that..
      series b means that they have already validated the market: so anyone joining after that should earn equity over time using tenure and not on their initial grant.

      not to take anything away from what you bring in: i feel like you’re undervaluing what they have already built and expecting a lot more equity..
      Nov 10, 2021