Should I switch companies? I've been at Google as a Product Design Engineer (hardware/MechE) for almost 3 years at L4 and have always felt that I was down-leveled since I joined from a startup and didn't know better when I accepted. I lived with it figuring I'd just work towards a promotion (CME, EE). Unfortunately, things didn't go my way. I initially joined a risky (but super fun) team at Google and the project was cancelled after 1 yr. One good thing out of that was that I got 3 months of down time to find a new team, but I felt that reset my promo progress. I decided I would leave Google at the time and even got some good offers from Tesla and Airbnb. I was ready to accept Airbnb, but then Covid and lockdown started. I ended staying at Google for the stability since I also have a family to worry about. I joined a new team but unfortunately, my manager for this new team quit about 7 months after I joined and I was left kind of manager less for 2 months before we found a replacement. I didn't feel confident trying for promo last round with a new manager I only knew for a month. My perf with the this team has been EE and SEE and my current manager is highly confident I'll get promoted next cycle. Anyways, I've been at Google almost 3 yrs now and still at L4. I feel really down sometimes about the level since I see people being hired in at L5 and L6 with similar YOE but I know I'm close to promo. I also hate my project. The workload on this team is miserable and I often feel burnt out. We work with APAC a lot so I'm working day and night. Meetings go to midnight sometimes and some nights I barely have time to spend with my family. My team and direct manager are great though and I feel like I've established my reputation as a good engineer with this group. Lately, I keep getting contacted by managers and recruiters from companies like Facebook (FRL), Apple, Snap (Spectacles), and Tesla every few months so I can't help but wonder if I should just go for it. I know I'd likely get leveled up if I switch companies, but interviewing is just so tedious and I'm getting comfortable at Google. The stock has done really well this year, but I'm approaching my 4y cliff. Sometimes, I feel I could just get my promo and stay here forever (but maybe eventually move to a less intense team/project). I also have a 2 yr old so I don't want to be climbing the corporate ladder much more and don't want to spend another year "proving my worth" to a new team again. I also have no idea if the grass is any greener at these new companies. For context, I worked at Apple my first year out of school....the WLB on my current project is worse but not sure if that's also a result of being a working mom and Covid. Also, though my project sucks, I do feel Google as a company cares more about their employees than Apple did. YOE: 8 + Masters Degree TC: 280K/362K (granted value/actual value)
Have you started any convos with your manager about promo? I’d suggest talking to your manager about plan to become L5 regardless of projects to set some tangible goals and show that your capable at L5. Seems like that’s the first thing to do. If you have time I would suggests considering other opportunities but focus on good wlb. Snap may be interesting and apple depending on which product teams you would be working for.
I have. My new manager agrees I'm on track for promo and will most likely get it next cycle. It's just that results for the next promo cycle won't come until October or November.
At Apple you will most likely have to travel and spend time away from family
How's that changed/changing with Covid? I've always had to travel for work though I agree I hate it.
It’s been on pause but probably will come back as global travel opens back up
Did you think about applying for promo the cycle that you got the SEE in? Or do you have to wait to get SEE and then the next cycle is when you apply for promo?
I thought about applying. I just read that L4 to L5 is mostly based on manager write up and my new manager had only been around for about 1-2 months at the time so I wasn't sure how it would go. I feel like I should have just tried for it...
How bad is your cliff? I would leave before then because promo raise and CME refresher after won’t compensate. However, given you have a family, you need to be careful in which team you are joining- I would do something stable like FB.
I think I projected it out to be about $60k based on past raises, stock grants, and 5% annual stock appreciation. Not sure whether promo raise would be able to tighten that gap at all.
What product is/was Airbnb building? I wasn’t aware they are in hardware business at all. Thanks OP in advance.
Airbnb smart homes tech
They were productizing ADU type dwellings or something like that. Seemed much more interesting than tech gadgets, but also riskier and more niche...
Wearable org? If so, run away as fast as you can
What is the problem with google wearable? They approached me recently and I was at least tempted.
Yeah I’d like to hear more about this. Was approached by a recruiter for Google wearables. They claim it’s going to be the next big thing..
Ya whats wrong with Wearable org? They are hiring HWE in droves and I was approached by someone to apply there
OP, I was in a similar boat at google. I don’t have a recommendation for you but will give some info on my situation and what I did. So, I had 7+masters when I joined as L4. I got 6 EEs and no promo in 4 years. I didn’t do perf the remaining times. And I had 12 managers, most of them would join after a oerf cycle and reset my progress. Entire team suffered and our VP didn’t care. Lot of attrition. Anyway, I found offers in growth stage companies and got L6 and L7 offers with current pay matching google. If there’s a stock upside, it will work even better for me. The work is interesting and there’s more influence than at google. I learn more too. Google had good wlb and culture was good for a while too. Plus with tenure, you can figure out how to coast. But at my age, it felt prudent to work hard and grow now, and coast later. I’ll see if it works out! Changed jobs just 5 months ago so no data available yet
Really appreciate your neutral and data-led style of offering your story
I did the whole startup thing for 4 years before Google. Google really undervalued my experience from there. I will agree that the work was way more interesting though. However, the pay never came close, especially if you take into how much FAANG stock appreciated in 4 yrs. Also, the uncertainty of how much runway was left and lack of benefits is probably what drove me back to big companies, especially with a family.
I say join Amazon 😈
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Stay, the culture is the best at Google. All other companies have horrible WLB and it's toxic. No amount of money is worth going back to Apple or even FB.
Agreed, Google is the cushiest place to be for anyone doing anything hardware. I have not heard great things about FRL and there have been multiple under 1 year boomerang back to Google I know. I was previously at Amazon and that was total hell.
Why is FRL so bad? They seem to be aggressively recruiting.