S386/HR1044 Debate Flagging

Sep 18, 2019 302 Comments

Is it just going to be the norm on blind that any post about this topic that doesent support the bills will be flagged into oblivion? Why are supporters so afraid of free speech and discussion even trying to get this passed without debate in the senate?

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TOP 302 Comments
  • Microsoft TIwr82
    OP
    All I hear from the pro bill argument is that they are willing to inflict the same pain they feel on every other country on earth just to shorten their queue slightly? This is a deeply flawed bill that does not fix the actual problem just distributes a problem created by Indian consultancy companies to every other country. The term ROW makes it sound like it’s a 1 VS 1 arrangement where it’s India vs ROW but you have to consider that ROW is literally every other country on earth except China who are also against this bill and effectively part of ROW against this. I think everyone agrees reform is badly needed, but this is selfish and solves nothing.
    Sep 18, 2019 28
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      You should probably talk to some HR or hiring manager and ask them what they silently really prefer if they are picking between two sort of equal candidates?
      Sep 19, 2019
    • PayPal / Finance
      siba

      PayPal Finance

      PRE
      Spire, Microsoft, Tata Consultancy Services
      sibamore
      Diversity is not encouraging a skin color, national origin, sex, religion, or race but it is not
      discriminating them...
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Amazon / Eng
      coolkid326

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Amazon, ZUME Pizza
      coolkid326more
      Chinese are also against this bill.
      Sep 23, 2019
    • Apple / Eng qCOV23
      S386 supporters have been playing tricks the entire time. Here I list some of their mostly used BS, for which the reason of being bullshit is less obvious.

      1) “Using country of origin in EBGC is against law”. EBGC has TWO components: employment AND immigration. Employment is not based on country of origin, that’s law, true; BUT immigration is mainly about country of origin, by definition. US can and should control immigration using country of origin. So stop saying “using country of origin in EBGC is against law”. That is BS.

      2) “S386 is first come first serve so it’s fair”. First come first serve is terrible scheduling policy in most real life scenarios. As most folks on Blind are in the computer science industry, do I even need to explain why pure FIFO is almost never a good scheduling policy in the real world? Especially for complex resource allocation problems. Even CPU time allocation doesn’t use pure FIFO, and S386 supporters use FIFO everywhere as if it’s the fairest and best policy. That is BS.

      3) “Country cap”. Even the Senators use this to claim that some countries’, especially India’s, EBGC are harmed by an upper percentage (7%). That’s a big myth. I think most folks here know that. Anyway, so called country cap is in fact a guarantee that each country gets all its EBGC request fulfilled if its less than 7% of 140K. The cap is from the 140K, NOT the 7%. India gets around 20%, sometimes close to 30%, of EBGC each year, by getting the unused EBGC. We all know that. The real data is publicly available on DHS website.
      Dec 12, 2019
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      Ok
      Dec 13, 2019
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Lyft TEHm35
      What kind of logic is this - why even refer to Europe as Europe and not all their constituent countries at once .
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      Because most of the countries share a common thing, but for the major part they are different and get different treatment. For US immigration purposes they have been fairly equal during the past 6-7 years
      Sep 19, 2019
    • VMware iuubdndjd
      This is an employment category. There is already a separate diversity category in which Indians are not allowed to participate. So diversity question is not good.
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Lyft TEHm35
      Taylor farms - same is true for India ; it’s more diverse than Europe .
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      It’s not true. Juridically it’s considered as one whole country.
      What happens between its borders is only business of the indian people.

      US immigration discriminates based on country of origin within in Europe.

      RoW sees indians as indians. It’s really not RoW’s business that indian society within India is so broken down and not united. US is united - United States of America.
      Sep 19, 2019
  • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
    Gonna share the best post in my opinion from these debates
    Indians: I have to wait 152 years for GC
    RoW: lol, whatever

    HR 1044 passes with rare majority
    RoW: 3 YEARS FOR GC IS UNACCEPTABLE!!
    Sep 18, 2019 13
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      As someone said here
      "To the privileged, equality is unfair!"
      Sep 20, 2019
    • Amazon / Eng
      coolkid326

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Amazon, ZUME Pizza
      coolkid326more
      Just remember one thing, the 150yr backlog for Indian is caused by Indian themselves, not RoW. So no reason to ask RoW to sacrifice anything for you.
      Sep 23, 2019
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      Just remember, I as an individual applied. I didn't conspire with anyone from my country nor did my country conspire to send me.

      If we were to treat applicants as countries, it gives the basis to reject every Iranian because they belong to enemy country (which I will never support - my Iranian brothers and sisters deserve equal treatment as much as me), same with Chinese, Afghanistan etc.

      Treating people as countries is such a slippery slope, you can even justify Japanese internment with it.
      Sep 23, 2019
    • Amazon / Eng
      coolkid326

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Amazon, ZUME Pizza
      coolkid326more
      While the intention is good, the fact is not as good as it declared. Everyone knows what's going on here. Just put it into a public hearing and don't try to sneak in.
      Sep 23, 2019
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      Nobody is sneaking in. Did you bother to hear about 1044 in house? It passed house with over whelming majority. There is a reason why that happened. It's because 365 offices see that as simple technical fix that doesn't penalize Someone for immutable characteristic like country of birth.
      Sep 23, 2019
  • EPAM Systems 3@T_d1€k
    It's only to be expected from people who try to sneak S386 and HR1044 through Congress without a single debate on it.

    They have no arguments. It's always "you're racist" with absolutely zero backing of the claim.
    Sep 18, 2019 2
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Flagged by the community.

  • LinkedIn Wiener
    I’m totally OK with a bill that reduces Indian wait time without sacrificing everyone else in the process. Indians get about 20% of GC quota per year. If they get 60% they will have very manageable wait time and ROW can still get their GC fairly quickly.

    However, they are just way too selfish and greedy and they want 100% GCs to solve their problem. I hope this bill never pass.
    Sep 18, 2019 5
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      I would anyday take a bill that doesn't affect anyone. After all, more support is good.

      Politics is a different beast. There is no way to pass a bill that increases a single GC outside of a comprehensive reform. Unfortunately such a reform has not happened in the last 3 decades and there is no hope of one anytime. For all the wait we have done, we never got any support from row, because just like you, the rest of beneficiaries don't care about my wait. Some would even prefer we don't exist (but I digress).

      This is the baby step in a real solution. Sure it's going to make the wait for RoW a little longer from 0-2 years to 4-6 years. But yeah this is the price we pay for equality.

      When blacks gained jobs, privileged whined like this. So don't worry, this has happened in the past and this will happen in future.

      To all my fellow countrymen who are like me: just don't become the whiny snob like the one above and let's be empathetic to other's pain if we ever get into position of privilege.
      Sep 18, 2019
    • Microsoft TIwr82
      OP
      Are you seriously comparing yourself to the black civil rights movement? That comparison is shameful

      Also at least be honest about what will change, it won’t be 4-6 years but 10+ years for everyone.
      Sep 18, 2019
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      Again for the privileged, equality is oppression. Learn first what equality means.
      Sep 18, 2019
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      Again, amusing to see how projected wait time grows longer with every post!
      Its quite easy to put an argument against the bill when all one has to do is a wait_time++ every now and then.
      Sep 18, 2019
    • Uber / Eng
      GbGi84

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      GbGi84more
      Those people who abused h1b to sneak into US are now calling out for “equality”. F**king ridiculous. Indian people deserves the long wait.
      Sep 19, 2019
  • Microsoft TIwr82
    OP
    Theirs approx 7.7 billion people in the world today, and about 1.3 billion of those from India. If you exclude the US and India that’s about 6 billion people who can be classed as ROW. So this bill will make it so that somehow every single green card for the next decade will go to a group of 1.3 billion, where the group of 6 billion won’t get a single one? And this is fair how exactly?
    Sep 18, 2019 10
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      Boy wierner just read a little bit about this bill or just watch the bill's announcement.
      " There is an unborn child in Europe who will get a GC faster than an Indian techie working in Google"
      -- senator's words not mine!
      Sep 18, 2019
    • Oracle iYvIgG
      Importing nurses from Philippines is human labor racketing- IV words not mine, now they have no problem giving a carve out to them.
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Google
      GoogleSoft

      Google

      PRE
      Microsoft
      GoogleSoftmore
      ^Your point being?
      Sep 19, 2019
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      Whaaa?! Ah ok @oracle is trolling!
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Amazon
      buffChikos

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      buffChikosmore
      Google: hats off man. Your responses are so clear and to the point. This is how you should give back to trolls!
      Sep 19, 2019
  • Flagged by the community.

    • EPAM Systems 3@Td!€k
      You're misusing King's quotes so why the hell not?
      Sep 18, 2019
    • LinkedIn gri
      EPAM jackass, you have problem with people and democratic process.

      The world does not subscribe to your and your cults twisted interpretations!
      Sep 18, 2019
    • EPAM Systems 3@Td!€k
      And who the fuck are you I haven't even noticed you exist
      Sep 18, 2019
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      Made up graphs like this come up so often and folks treat it like it's the ultimate truth!
      Reality is this is ONE viewpoint and a much debunked one. The simple reality being nobody really knows how long the queue is!
      That is because there is really no way to know how many folks are waiting(priority dates for Indians is decades back and EB GC is filed only when an employer change happens). Even in the worst case this is an exaggerated view at best.
      Sep 18, 2019
    • EPAM Systems 3@Td!€k
      What's exaggerated is the "150 years wait"
      Sep 18, 2019
  • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
    Fear is an easy emotion to evoke.
    For S386/HR1044 all that needs to happen is a wait_time_for_row++ every now and then when no one is looking and volla you now have earned another poor soul's fear who thinks this bill punishes everyone while granting sweet privileged to just Indians and Chinese.
    Sep 18, 2019 17
    • Oracle iYvIgG
      4 years ???? It’s more than 10 years based multiple credible reports . Stop lying
      Sep 19, 2019
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      LOL! Just read the bill itself before reading any "credible reports" that are trying to predict a doomsday future!
      Briefly, while the backlog clears, 4 years from now, future applicants may see a temporary delay in their processing times.
      Normal processing time is already 2+ years for a GC. Wait times run in parallel, so a total wait time of 5-6 years will be seen as a delay of 3-4 years in the worst case scenario!
      If you are interested, just question how these prediction were made and you will see ridiculously absurd assumptions like the whole of India will apply and the USCIS will just let every Indian Kumar and Raj in, without question!!
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Amazon
      buffChikos

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      buffChikosmore
      Good one VMware
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Facebook / Eng pookyh
      Stop spreading lies. Almost all people who apply in 2020 will be waiting until at least 2030.
      Sep 20, 2019
    • Amazon / Eng
      coolkid326

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Amazon, ZUME Pizza
      coolkid326more
      Law makers need to pretend this bill is beneficial to Chinese as well. Otherwise it is just too ugly.
      Sep 23, 2019
  • LinkedIn Wiener
    Anything related to s386 is flagged. They want to secretly pass it as law.
    Sep 18, 2019 1
    • LinkedIn gri
      Yeah right, we should replace US senate with blind ?

      Is US senate secret ?
      Sep 18, 2019
  • Oracle iYvIgG
    Why should we not debate this on blind ? Why are Indians abusing blind and blocking freespeech just because they have the numbers? This is the same attitude represented in the India first bill. The topic is not in my best interest so let’s rally the crowd and flag it!!!sickening behavior.

    If you don’t like free speech you have already demonstrated that you will not make good Americans.
    Sep 19, 2019 5
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      This^ !!! 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
      Sep 19, 2019
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      Oh cut out the hypocrisy will ya! Folks aren't flagging honest debates. Just read this post - you will see a bunch of racist trolls who have just one agenda - to demean Indians!
      Free speech comes with responsibility, if you cannot exercise free speech responsibly then you don't deserve to be in a democracy!
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      There is a fine line between racism, xenophobia and stereotyping. I haven’t seen a single racist comment.
      It’s all xenophobia and stereotyping.
      Learn to distinguish!
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      'you guys have polluted the line' -> no I didn't - to stereotype everyone as if they are responsible for everything bad in the system is racism.

      Definition: prejudice against another class (race) with the belief that one is superior.

      That and posting Steve Pushor's graphs - is classic definition of one. You can hide as much as you want, but everyone is noticing this. Don't worry. Karma is a whatever, it will take it's toll. 🙂
      Sep 19, 2019
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      I tend to disagree about your definition. Your team is superior over mine in terms capabilities, or people from your town are superior over people from my town (within the same country), because they are smarter with better education. (Hypothetically speaking). Is that still racism?

      I am tired of people bringing up racism every single time they feel even a bit on the losing side of an argument. Racism is irrelevant here.

      To give you another perspective: eastern europe’s backlog used to be 8 years, while Western Europe was 0. Generally speaking it’s all the same race. Is that still racism? I don’t think so.
      Sep 19, 2019

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