Some questions on diversity
I know we’ve discussed at length on what the whole point of “diversity in tech” movement is, with most answers ultimately coming down to 1. Reducing blind spots 2. Maybe a better eye for market opportunities 3. PR BS I certainly believe that the hiring bar should not be lower for anyone based on race or gender - when I interview candidates, these are not factors I consider (and I ask the same 3 questions to everyone anyway) So what I’d like to know is, is there any actual bar raising / lowering going on in our industry based on diversity targets? Once I submit interview feedback, I’m not sure how the decisions are made from there. How do you feel about this? Disclosure: I’m a white male TC 340K, YOE 9
I’m a woman. And I think the hiring bar should not be lower. Period. Diversity efforts should start from helping minorities with training/advice/mentorship etc. basically the path setup for success and fighting against discrimination. Letting someone in with less capability is like throwing them into fire and reduce respect in the long run. Of course then again we have Harvard quota against Asians for years (diversity for others) and I’m not hearing a national uproar about it.
What Harvard quota are you talking about?
Jews had quotas on their admission years before the Asians did; we’re the reason Harvard even started having admission interviews! The majority of people at Harvard are Christian males to this day. I agree that we should be focusing on equality of opportunity, not outcome.
I agree to an extent. It’s just complicated though .. As a first gen Mexican, when I was doing my undergrad in college. I was the only hispanic kid in my class. And a lot of my classmates took college classes even in highschool to stay ahead, got internships due to socioeconomic wealth, had parents pay for college, didn’t have to work part time jobs to support themselves and could focus on learning vital software skills on their free time and focus on school 100%. Etc etc. Tons of financial. Social. Socioeconomic issues play into this. To some extent .. race shouldn’t matter .. but like. It does. Correct me if I’m wrong but for every minority that makes it to a FAANG Interview there are 10+ white kids that get one. And odds are the challenges/hardships minorities faced on the way there were much greater... so .. idk. When you give a pass to a minority for a bug or something, it’s what you need to do to allow the entry of that minority base into an industry which in turn .. could possibly level out the skill level in time. Where eventually. Race doesn’t matter at all. Just my 2 cents tho. I don’t really know. Just my experience.
Okay, plenty of Asians grew up without much wealth too, with parents who worked in laundry, postal service, manicure/pedicure or other things of that nature. But it is for some reason assumed that all asians are “crazy rich” and never had to work in college.
Agreed. Privilege plays a huge part into this as well. I have a couple white friends that met many struggles similar to mine, in some cases I was the more privileged one. It’s a complicated issue, indeed.
You should hear the constant stories that are shared in Microsoft blind channel. Hr constantly pressuring managers to hire and promo diversity. Forced diversity quotas tied to compensation. Internal transfers are blocked for white Asian and Indian males at certain levels until they first fill a diversity quota. The stories are rampant and the bar has definitely been lowered at Microsoft. Women and other minorities express that they feel uncomfortable and that there is now more bias against them because of this
My experience is: Yes, there is. People have unconscious biases both for and against diverse candidates. I've seen people accept "below the bar" candidates because they're women (I rarely see this with race diversity, personally), the whole time trying to convince themselves that the women are really good, definitely above the bar. It's awkward because they are clearly in denial about the sub-par interview performance, so wanting to help promote diversity. And then I've seen explicit bias. All the time I hear "you should hire her, that would help with diversity." I think everyone means well, but it's clearly sexist all the same.
I don't believe that race or gender should be considered when hiring, but I'm ok with higher refereral bonuses being paid out for Diversity candidates as well as recruiting outreach to bring in more diverse candidates. Managers should never be pressured to take a lower qualified candidate.
Yes, there is bar raising and lowering on the basis of protected characteristics going on in the industry. It is unlawful and it should end. D&I is supposed to be about ending exclusionary practices, not shifting who has privilege in employment practices.
I have had couple recruiter friends telling me that the interview results can be overlooked based on gender(in their opinion - small bugs/issues in interviewee's code can be overlooked). I'm not sure if there's any truth to it.
I get invited to go on many UR trips and the recruiter always emphasizes that while we need to be conscious of our own bias we should never ever screen through a candidate that can’t survive loops. Yea of course everyone guys and girls alike do not prefer working in a sausage fest environment but the reality is many of us have interviewed and do not set people up for failure if we can see it clearly lined out through the 7+ different people they have to pass through to get a hire