Thoughts on quitting before being fired
So this is an observation I’ve had in my career and also prompted by a recent conversation. Many times in my career I’ve seen coworkers get “pushed out” and quit because they feel they’re close to being fired. i have done this once myself and now years later I realize that I probsbly was not even close to being fired, i wasn’t on a PIP and didnt get bad feedback, my relationship with my manager was just strained and could have been repaired if I decided to, but I got scared and wanted a “fresh start.” Somewhere we (especially Americans) got the idea that it is very serious and shameful to be fired, and also that it is much closer to happening than we think. This can trigger stress and we decide to quit. But the flip side, that I hear, is that aside from FAANG companies, and especially if you’re located in states with strong employee rights, like WA, MA and CA, the firing process is drawn out and unlikely if the company actually knows what it’s doing. Even if given bad feedback, many companies like to move employees to other roles before firing, if its not for cause. I recently got the advice from someone i trust to basically never quit and make the employer fire you. Continue to try to improve and 99% of the time you’ll be fine. Managers are just posturing they have more power than they actually do. They threaten your career and financial stability. And though HR and Legal almost always support the manager, most will not let someone be fired due to personality differences or low performance that can be improved. The risk is too great. Basically, never quit unless you 100% want to because you got a better job, etc. You have much more control than you’re led to believe. On Blind I also see all the advice is immediately to start looking for another job, or even quit without a job lined up. I think this is probably stupid and gives the employer so much power due to perceived shame of firing. I’m curious to see what hiring managers and HR think.
Sound advice, let them fire you. In the meantime, start looking.
It is rather hard to be fired for non-criminal / non-harassment stuff in today’s litigious society. Most people should ride it out if for no other reason than to get as prepared as possible for the next job without being stressed for cash
What makes you think the firing process at FAANG companies is not long and drawn-out? Google at least hardly ever fires people; I only know one person who has actually gotten fired and word was that he had received no less than three "final written warnings" from HR before it happened (one could forgive him for thinking "final" was in fact a meaningless term in that context and nothing would ever happen). Forget legal issues: companies don't *want* to fire people. It's terrible for morale, and it's usually more expensive to hire and train up a new person than to fix someone else's performance or behavioral problem.
Good point. When I observed people being fired at FAANG it was a surprise to me, but you’re right, how would I know what’s all going on with a coworker
The ex-husband ex-fb ex-google tech lead was fired. You don't always get on pip and have a second chance I guess
Maybe they did something for cause?
From reading some Blind posts, some of the PIP timings are short. I don’t know exactly how long someone is on a dev list or on PIP but is it 30 days then out? Depending on the timeframe from initial PIP to being fired, and the low chance of excelling out of a PIP, I see comments recommending to use the time to start interviewing to have offers available once finally fired. This is just what I’ve gathered from Blind.
Yeah I wonder what’s going on there. Idk, I’m not a dev. Surprised they wouldn’t just demote them or something.
I have had five jobs across four YOE and I have been fired from three of them for basically being an asshole (I am an asshole) and having insecure managers. These were from companies that you have likely never heard of before. However nobody has ever asked me or my former employers if I was ever fired but in smaller companies you can definitely get fired pretty quickly. Most background checks short of a TS-SCI never ask you or anyone this and even if they ask me why I left a job I was fired from I will just lie
Wouldn’t it be obvious if you’ve got a few months in between each job though?
never quit before you have another offer signed
There is a diff to firing and being layed off..... being fired implies that you were on a pip or did something that broke company policy rules etc.... layed off is often as a result of cost cutting and sometimes that ‘may’ be underperformance or ‘may’ be due to diff skills required or just need to cut the costs and other roles are kept due to the role is one that absolutely cannot go or that a manager just wants you out due to you dont conform to their viewpoint or you are too smart for them etc etc etc .... Companies never give an official recommendation or reference that will be ‘glowing’ or ‘damning’ .... every manager is trained to say only the dates of employment and confirm you worked there..... they cannot give any other details at all... if they do they are liable!
I think being fired only matters for government roles that specifically ask if you have been fired before. It’s impossible to get that information in a background check and you should never bring it up unless specifically asked the question “Have you ever been fired before?”. Even then I would just say no as there’s no way to verify that information.