Upgrade from Microsoft L67 Engineering Manager
I am L67 Engineering manager in Microsoft. Solid performer and comp is 500K ballpark. Let’s call it baseline. With stock appreciation it’s even higher. In the current role I manage ICs. I am in early stages of talking to Seattle area big tech companies like FB, G, Amazon, Oracle cloud. For them to beat the baseline comp comfortably, I would need to land L7 or higher offer. It seems such external hires are rare. In their staff, L7 or higher is usually < 5% people. On the other hand, they can match the comp at L6. I have few questions: Can any MS L67 share experiences of upgrading their baseline comp when moving to these companies? Did you land such jobs by going thru a strong referral or simply connecting with a recruiter? If you didn’t upgrade baseline comp, what other factors made you switch? I generally feel new job needs to have enough pull, as opposed to push from current job. Is my analysis generally correct? Ps: please don’t ask me specific questions about team, comp breakdown etc to respect anonymity. I have provided enough context for a discussion
Agree, don’t take L6 offer
I meant Amazon L6 which is in the same level as Google and Facebook L5
A high L6 (at fb, goog) is not a bad move at all - get your feet wet, get 1-2 exceeds ratings and you can jump to L7 safely. How many ICs do you presently manage?
What’s your YOE approximately?
Like I mentioned earlier, please don’t ask probing questions about my current role to respect anonymity. It’s a small connected world. All feedback is welcome. Another thing I noticed is that L67 can be EM in MICROSOFT and mange ICs. In other companies with similar comp, managers may be managing other managers plus ICs - they are partly M2. M2 in MICROSOFT is usually L68+. So that puts L67 EM at a relative disadvantage in the industry
M2s at Microsoft are not usually L68+
Few years ago L65 could be M2 at MS.
Fb Seattle E6 / M1 can probably beat 500k tc
You don’t need L7 for that comp. just L6 will do. That’s also base level for an external EM hire.
I left MSFT last year as L67 M2. Most L67s are M2s unless your org was recently flattened. The challenge with your comparison is that although you can easily beat your current salary, bonus plus stock will be different for each company you mentioned. As an illustrative example - Oracle rarely pays their annual bonus so you should negotiate that expected amount into your base, whereas Google would have a riot on there hands if they don't pay their annual bonus. One other thing to consider: MSFT annual stock grants are some of the most generous in the industry (93plus% of the company get their full allocation each year), that's why MSFt had been able to underpay you from a salary perspective.
Nuffsaid2 - when I talk to Oracle recruiter before even agreeing to a loop, should I explicitly state that I am looking for Sr Director or higher role? Or lead with saying current comp is x, and looking for upgrade from there. Looking for ideas on strategy
If you manage ICs in your current role then why would you look for a Sr. Director role? Reports are all managers. This is a big jump.
A L67 PM in my team just moved to OCI as Sr. Director. He was managing ICs (PMs). In his new role he is hiring both managers and ICs. So, I believe moving to Sr. Director is reasonable.
Better bet is to stick around for a promotion, as you know the system and people.
Don't go Amazon L6