Market is hot, not for senior managers and directors!!

Oct 31, 2021 643 Comments

Manager of 3 teams, been managing for the last 5 years, and I have been trying to land a couple of good interviews since March and I can’t find many. Even those that I find, many people are competing for 1 position. On the other side, my wife is a senior SWE and is keep getting messages from everywhere! I myself have hard times hiring for my teams..

So, if you are dreaming about becoming a manager, think twice because that could limit your mobility. If I could operate as E7 level, I would just convert. Better mental health too.!!

Update: thanks for sharing your views. It is not like I don’t have any reach outs from recruiters; I have talked to all good ones, and currently working with Airbnb, snap and some top pre-ipos; however, the bar is very high for managers. For ICs, we are becoming very soft these days due to hiring issues, but it is opposite for managers!


TC: around 900k; but I’m in the middle. Many people make more, and I was hired as ic5. Base,bonus, and regular stock is 760, the rest is appreciation from previous stock awards - 15 YEO.

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TOP 643 Comments
  • New / Data
    ghhs

    New Data

    ghhs
    The higher you go in hierarchy the tougher it gets, every company has 5-8 engineer to one Eng manager
    Oct 31, 2021 13
  • Amazon
    Northman

    Go to company page Amazon

    Northman
    Seem to be plenty of such opportunities around to me, but you need specialized skills and background and to really stand out. Just managing some teams that do some boring stuff isn't going to grab attention just because you are in FAANG. Thought leadership, publications, high visibility products your teams have built in a relevant area - your brand is everything as you get to this level, and your resume and network are how you get eyeballs pointing at you for a role.
    Oct 31, 2021 19
    • Google
      sveee

      Go to company page Google

      sveee
      What level are you at Amazon?
      Surprised to hear that your background (known in the industry for something critical to Amazon) did not ease things.
      Particularly if the interview was team specific (unlike the general rounds that F and G do)
      Nov 3, 2021
    • Amazon
      Jassy🤬

      Go to company page Amazon

      Jassy🤬
      @jwnx back door is not free pass there are folks who would pick bar raisers who they know, and all interviewers from their team to game the system. I have seen this more often
      Nov 3, 2021
  • Amazon
    m.trygve

    Go to company page Amazon

    m.trygve
    Managers from fb and goog are less competitive than other companies due to very special management culture in fb and goog. Directors and managers from Amazon have super hot market right now.
    Oct 31, 2021 12
    • If you are running a small team or org that is stable yes. Bottoms up is 'nice' but for highly scaling orgs it's not as effective. Obviously too top down like some parts of Msft or Amazon is not positive either. Must be balanced and adaptable. Most companies that want fang managers probably want to grow and scale.
      Nov 1, 2021
    • Apple
      NIoR10

      Go to company page Apple

      NIoR10
      In my experience, demand is not high for amazon managers. Supply is high. You think it’s easy to get someone from fb, apple, google, Netflix to leave their gig if they’re paid well or have great wlb? Amazon has both a ton of managers as well as employees who want to leave because of wlb, culture, pay, etc. It’s a lot easier to recruit from amazon because of that higher supply.
      Nov 1, 2021
  • Amazon / R&D
    SatyaSundr

    Go to company page Amazon R&D

    SatyaSundr
    900k is waste of money..
    I bet SDM will not do more than as scarecrow
    for devs SDM might be nothing more than that..may be excel and outlook at most.. Etc
    A Scarecrow costs 900k OMG..

    In my startup i will not have any SDM..
    all will be automated... Only PM matters not SDM

    I hope this role become absolute soon..
    Nov 1, 2021 13
    • Financial Services Company / Eng
      quantumeng

      Go to company page Financial Services Company Eng

      PRE
      eHarmony, Ticketmaster, Yahoo
      quantumeng
      SatyaSundr,
      By far the stupidest reply. Lol ... Scarecrow? really? are you shitting me? Clearly your inexperience speaking. But don't worry, you are probably not alone. Every developer with < 2-3 YOE thinks he/she is the "irreplaceable" one after writing a couple of lines of code.
      EMs / Directors roles are important to bring ICs together. PMs can't do that because barely there are any Technical PMs out there.
      Don't worry. Give it a few years. Grow up. You'll learn ;)
      Dec 5, 2021
    • obsoletely true
      Dec 13, 2021
  • Juniper / Eng
    fegyr3583

    Go to company page Juniper Eng

    fegyr3583
    That’s a universal truth for any career in general. The higher in the hierarchy you go, the fewer positions are available in general. That doesn’t mean one should keep sitting at an IC position for decades.

    As far as your comment on mental health/WLB is concerned, understand that once you break Director or beyond, it actually improves. Now, if you’re a Dir level or above person who can’t let go of micromanagement or if you like to be hands-on and sit and code (yes I have come across many such folks over my career at many companies), then your mental health/WLB will be bad. So you need to consciously learn how to delegate and you focus on leading, conceptualizing and providing direction. Doing that well is as big of an art as it is a science and it isn’t meant for everyone.

    As you advance in your career, you will need more soft skills and less hard/tech skills. That proportion keeps changing as you grow. And if any leetcoders want to disagree with this, they can continue spending their lives LCing. Once you’re a senior executive, you definitely need to understand technology and you need to know enough to be dangerous. But you do not need to spend your time getting into micro-details or coding. Lots of ICs can’t make this mindset shift and that’s what keeps them from becoming effective managers and eventually leaders. Remember, being a leader implies that that you need to lead. And what you lead is PEOPLE. Managing people is an art and a skill that needs cultivation. It isn’t random.
    Oct 31, 2021 5
    • Amazon
      Yoyoma44

      Go to company page Amazon

      Yoyoma44
      Yawn! From what I've seen, upper management in tech is just occupying a seat. No people-leader ever created revenue generating product or conceptualized anything from scratch.The innovation and dollar comes from engineers and computer scientists. Switch to banking industry and you see that the the MBA and execs actually drive the revenue and tech simply keeps up with business goals. Your answer is just boosting your ego in that expensive suit.
      Nov 1, 2021
    • Amazon; stick to what you know, your trite answer regarding leadership highlights that you are maxed and probably well out of your swim lane already.
      Nov 3, 2021