Call it whatever but I hate PMs using word ‘Team’ every 10 minutes in meeting. The only thing they do is scheduling and asking for updates. It is just aweful to see PMs playing with MS project to update Gantt charts and getting paid at Principal Engineer level or higher.
Let's wait for some good PM to give the testimony here! If they don't, they are on the same page as well.
PM I am referring is Program Manager role
Fully agree with OP...just glorified highly overpaid admin assistants
I was thinking the same. Are they really glorified secretaries? Is it hard to break into? I would think not based on input here
I'm thinking about becoming one 😂 so I can get paid for doing nothing
Haha hell ya. With FANG?
I've been in roles with good and bad PMs, and it makes all the difference. They're important to make sure everyone is working in the same direction and prioritizing the same things. Not too much technical skills required but still a crucial role.
I completely disagree...most of the time they're the blockers because they don't know anything
While I can't speak for OP's colleague and the generic 'paper-pusher' program manager, for a serious, senior Program Manager, the expectations aren't easy. Process-related changes can be as hard as (and in my opinion, even harder than) product-related changes because it's less cut-and-dry and more abstract. Here, you are talking about people, mind-set changes, getting consensus and buy-in across departments and org. levels, overcoming recalcitrant and political stakeholders, knowing when to push a particular idea or change and when not to, etc, and STILL meeting program OKRs. Perhaps best to speak to a few experienced Program Managers to understand the role better.
So, let’s say these changes have been implemented, then what? Big established Companies don’t changes processes that often. Sure, you could be helping a newly acquired company, but other than that, I don’t see them adding much value; not as much as lead engineers.
I think it'd be incorrect to assume that big established companies don't have 'process changes' or that process changes are the only use of program management (apologies if my comment above implied that). Program Management is typically to manage large programs, and there are always/ can always be several running simultaneously in big, established companies at any given point of time. Some companies have a PMO (Program Management Office) as well. Even making sure a large release involving multiple lines of business runs smoothly and in alignment across geographies, could require program management. And as we know, a 'release' is a recurring occurrence. Regarding value at a company level, yes, I'd agree (but, as I mentioned above, it doesn't mean PMs aren't required). Regarding compensation, I am not sure, but you could again be right.
I doubt if program managers get paid that much.... I could be wrong though.
Hate to disappoint you but yes they do sadly! 😔😔
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Product manager or project manager?
Both..same $***