What would a fair merit based system look like?

Feb 10, 2019 78 Comments

I think most points systems get "merit" very wrong and equate it to things that often signal a lack of merit.

Like they give points for master's without considering which school and wind up rewarding people who go to dodgy online schools to tick that box. When I'm reviewing resumes I consider such schools a NEGATIVE and discard the resume.

But there has to be a good way so let's brainstorm what real merit would look like.

I'll go first with she tenets:

1. Reputation matters a lot and any feature of a merit system should include a reputational element. Moreover reputation is best measured by surveys of industry professionals, not things like counting citations.

2. This applies to schools and also employers and also to individuals

3. Salary is a good measure but it has caveats and needs to be relative to job category and age as well as the reputation of the employer.

4. It's better to have done randomness the to have a complete stack rank, to reduce the incentive to game every last point. Being 2 point higher should give you a better chance, not shut out the lower point person

So with that here is a suggestion:

A. Instead of points you earn ballots in a lottery. Everyone gets 1 ballot for applying assuming they meets basic qualification. If in the lottery any one of your ballots is selected then you are accepted.

B. You get 1 extra ballot for every degree level you complete regardless of the reputation of your school so long as it's accredited

C. You get 1 extra ballot if it's a US school

D. You get 3 extra ballots for every degree completed at a school that is recognized as being to 25% world wide.

^ So up to 5 ballots per degree

E. You get 1 ballot for every 5 years experience you have in your field up to a maximum of 3 ballots.

F. You get 1 extra ballot for every 5 years US experience you have

G. You get 3 extra ballots for every high reputation employer you worked for, where you worked at least 2 years (top by reputation among industry pros)

H. You get 1 extra ballot for every 100k salary at your most recent employer, up to 3 ballots

I. You get 1 extra ballot pet 100k if that salary is US, up to 3

J. You get 3 extra ballots if that salary is in the top 25% of you labor category BY AGE, up to 9 ballots

K. You get 1 ballot for every letter of recommendation from an industry professional in your field, up to 3. Meaning a professor or manager in your industry

L. You get 1 extra ballot if that person is a US based professional

M. You get 3 extra ballots if that person is an employee of one of the previously identified to 25% schools or employers by reputation

N. Age discrimination: You lose 5 ballots for every 10 years of age over 20, is at 30, 40, 50, and 60.

O. Family discrimination: You get 1 extra ballot for every member of your immediate family who is under 30

P. US person discrimination: You get 1 extra ballots for each immediate family member who is a US citizen and 3 more if they are under 30.

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TOP 78 Comments
  • Oracle / R&D lHEA77
    tl;dr
    Feb 10, 2019 4
    • Glassdoor IPNO
      Idiot can’t think enough to imagine that it may not be a man commenting. Fuck off, close minded idiot.
      Feb 11, 2019
    • Intel HRC
      Do you even work? So much free time?
      Feb 11, 2019
  • Cisco / Eng OrdoAbChao
    should not be in a position of influence
    Feb 10, 2019 0
  • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
    How does one determine the top 25% schools in the world? What criteria do we use? What does it even mean to be a “top” school? (For me and most Americans, IITs are not top schools)

    What does a “high reputation” employer mean? Companies that pay top salaries? Or are we talking about ethics?

    How do we verify letter of recommendations? What does “industry professional” mean?

    Why get an extra ballot for each family member under 30? That has nothing to do with merit and unnecessarily incentivize larger families with younger children. As an American, I don’t want large families of some foreign culture suddenly take over my town.
    Feb 10, 2019 18
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      @Desi techie

      You can’t control your neighbor but you can control the fence between you and your neighbor.

      American culture is probably less defined than, say, Indian culture. That’s because American culture is much younger and borrows heavily from other European cultures (and in some parts of America, Mexican culture).

      But I think you are already familiar with some aspects of American culture. Let me ask you this: How would most white Americans react if there was suddenly a larger population of darker-skinned, high-earning immigrants moving into the country?
      Feb 11, 2019
    • Amazon heyyeh
      OP
      American culture has nothing to do with race or religion, but it still exists and it's very evident to me when I meet someone who grew up here and "click" with a certain outlook and set of shared values, regardless of what religion or skin color.

      There's a huge cultural gap between Indians and Chinese who were born and raised in America versus their parents who immigrated. The American born Indians or Chinese have more in common with each other and with me than they do with Indians or Chinese from the old country, or than I do with people who grew up in my ancestors country.

      That gap between you and your American born kids is American culture.
      Feb 11, 2019
  • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
    You mention “fair” in the title yet you have discriminatory criteria like age in your post.
    Feb 10, 2019 21
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      And you are missing the simple fact that the things that are ALREADY getting checked is done under the PREVIOUS system, which was designed BEFORE your ballot counting processes.

      Old system != New system

      Doesn’t matter who is paying. Processes still need to be updated to accommodate your ballot counting and all the new criteria.

      Jesus Christ, are you being purposely dense? I am not making simple stuff hard because it is NOT.

      “What's the big deal looking to see if they school they were ALREADY checking is on a list.”

      Which list? Which one? There are literally dozens. You pick one (best engineering school), you’ll leave out the rest (best medical school, best law school, etc).

      You’re the one who doesn’t understand economics. You still haven’t answered my question challenging your claim that America needs more immigrant children.

      “It's not zero sum. There's not only so much to go around. The more immigrants you bring in the more stuff everyone will have. So long ago they are working”

      Ok, that’s the straw that broke the camel’s back. You’re not making any sense. Resources (food, water, land, housing, energy) IS finite. More people coming in doesn’t mean more stuff for everyone.

      This is not going anywhere so I’ll just leave you to your shitty thread. Good luck getting anyone else to engage with your delusional ideas. Goodbye.
      Feb 12, 2019
    • Amazon heyyeh
      OP
      I'm saying degrees and employment are already checked as nothing I suggested required any additional check thereby refuting any claim that this is difficult.

      It's not hard to come up with a list of top schools, there are lots out there, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing on that.

      You are wrong that resources are finite. Take housing, more workers means more demand for housing and more jobs to build housing. So more houses well be built, actually creating jobs.

      If you don't get that point you know zero about economics.
      Feb 12, 2019
  • Facebook public2
    Yawn
    Feb 10, 2019 0
  • Zillow Group Sr. Troll
    Just leetcode bro
    Feb 10, 2019 0
  • Oscar 🐨koala
    You should run for Congress.
    Feb 10, 2019 0
  • Wayfair / Eng
    jwxs26

    Wayfair Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    jwxs26more
    Lol, sounds like a jealous Ivy Leaguer. Education and learning are not equivalent. Sorry.
    Feb 10, 2019 0
  • Tableau Zero Cool
    So you give more points to anything US based. Why is that fair?
    Feb 10, 2019 11
    • Tableau Zero Cool
      F1 visa (for students) is not dual intent.
      Feb 10, 2019
    • Amazon heyyeh
      OP
      You're allowed to file h1b on F1.
      Feb 10, 2019
  • Everything you describe is different US immigrant and non-immigrant visas.
    This discussion of merit based immigration will return a system not too far from this current one.
    Feb 10, 2019 2
    • Amazon heyyeh
      OP
      There is no such thing as a "US immigrant", these will be foreigners who are already in the US or were on some previous visa and this is preferring to double down and continue supporting these existing immigrants over those who never had a US visa.

      I think that's sensible. The US bias is also less than the reputational bias. You would get 2 points for a second rate US school, 4 points for IIT, and 5 points for MIT.

      US experience increases the chances the person will succeed in the US. People with US school or work experience will have developed a network in the US and have a good idea how to operate in the US system.
      Feb 10, 2019
    • I meant us immigration system..
      Feb 19, 2019

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