What's with the american focus on job titles?

New
Ab44

New

Ab44
Sep 1, 2019 39 Comments

I see this all the time here, along with it's vocabulary of "downlevel" and "skip manager" and all that borderline military stuff. At my job in EU we have juniors and normal devs, then managers. That's all

If we have a problem with someone we tell it, regardless of junior, CEO or something else. If I want more to do or resposibilities, I ask for it.

In US it seems so much revolving around titles an promotions ladders and whatever, how come this is such a difference? And what do you think of it?

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 TOP 39 Comments
  • Oracle
    not_larry

    Go to company page Oracle

    PRE
    Amazon
     not_larry
    TC?
    Sep 1, 2019 13
  • Title = $. Ppl like $
    Sep 1, 2019 4
    • Oracle
      L7rdtM

      Go to company page Oracle

      L7rdtM
      Levels are often mapped by HR to comp bands. Skip manager is the person who your manager answers to, which is a functional relationship, not just a job title
      Sep 1, 2019
    • Uber
      gink

      Go to company page Uber

      gink
      I’ve found level to map to skill broadly. So, it works well in the average case and rarely so in the individual case. Also, two people could be the same level with wildly different strengths and weaknesses.
      Sep 1, 2019
  • Apple
    ca372jf275

    Go to company page Apple

    ca372jf275
    Levels are a horrible way that tech companies make it very clear what the tech / management path is for its employees. I’ll use amazon as an example. An L4 and L5 engineer have basically the same role of development, the only difference being an L5 should be able to take a project on their own with little direction.

    An L6 (Sr engineer) has a completely different role though. As an L6 you should be identifying and designing new projects that should be worked on as well as mentoring and guiding the developers (L4/L5). As an L6 there is very little, possibly no code that you write that’s going into production. Maybe you’ll write some proof of concepts but you’re not writing production code.

    An L7 (principal) is a different role as well. As an L7 you’re evaluating what’s going on technically across the whole org and providing technical guidance to business decisions. L8 is essentially the same as L7 but you’re doing it across the whole company not just the org.

    At L10 you’re basically big head. Do whatever you want, if anything, and get paid a shitload of money.

    Essentially there are 3 different jobs I listed there. Overall it would be better if we separated them out into different job titles instead of calling them the same thing. If nothing else it would make the interview process better because there’s no reason to ask anyone other than the L4/L5s LC questions. It would also make the roles much easier to define rather than being this hand wavy bullshit where no one can ever clearly define the difference between two levels at their company.

    As to why any of it is important? Because there’s a huge pay difference between the levels as well as more job security. A senior engineer gets paid more than double a new hire, who themselves are getting paid about 3 times the national median.

    Personally for me right now, I care about it for WLB. Being at the level I am, I don’t need to overwork to show I’m competent at my job and won’t get fired. I might not get promoted but I’m not at an up or out level.
    Sep 1, 2019 6
    • New
      Ab44

      New

      Ab44
      OP
      Yeah the baseline knowledge is a good argument, but maybe it's the constant drama around them here that really annoys me
      Sep 2, 2019
    • Cisco / IT
      shdifigbrk

      Go to company page Cisco IT

       shdifigbrk
      This is Blind. There’s constant drama about everything.
      Sep 2, 2019
  • WeWork
    RPvk36

    Go to company page WeWork

    RPvk36
    Levels are awesome. It’s reason for people to work hard and keep you moving in a direction. In Europe most workplaces feel apathetic and seem to be on a continual vacation break.
    Sep 1, 2019 2
    • Amazon / Eng
      AMZNBucks

      Go to company page Amazon Eng

       AMZNBucks
      They don't work hard in Europe. That's why the pay is low (proportional to work done) and European countries have little competitive edge versus American companies. Plus that's why the best of the best flock to the US of A. 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

      Would be nice to retire in Europe tho.
      Sep 1, 2019
    • New
      Ab44

      New

      Ab44
      OP
      What's wrong with just being developer? And then like I said, there is this weird ladder system where there is a limit for level X, even though you are equally skilled, so it turn into office politics

      Competition I think it's more because different regions and languages for building big platforms, for things where this is not so important as fashion, food or cars Europe companies are better
      Sep 1, 2019
  • Nutanix / Other
    tmax

    Go to company page Nutanix Other

     tmax
    Americans live with less content, whereas Europeans live far happier ....

    Sometimes you are unsatisfied with your life, while many people in this world are dreaming of living your life.

    A child on a farm sees a plane fly overhead and dreams of flying. But, A pilot on the plane sees the farmhouse and dreams of returning home.

    That’s life! Enjoy yours ... If wealth is the secret to happiness, then rich should be dancing on the streets. But only the poor kids do that.

    If power ensures security, then officials should walk unguarded. But those who live simply, sleep soundly.

    If beauty and fame brings ideal relationships, then celebrities should have the best marriages.

    Live simply, walk humbly, and Love genuinely... All good will come back to you.
    Sep 1, 2019 0