I'm just starting my career, and compared to my friends in other engineering majors(chemE, EE,) I feel like I know almost no specialized knowledge or math/skills. Their job security/jobs supply is based on that and not a lot of people can understand the math behind Fourier transform or group theory. Especially compared to what they'd be making in 20 years vs what I'd be making in 5 years @ FANG, I'm wondering if the compensation matches the work that I am doing and where it will go. I'm pretty alright at leetcode, but I also see the competition for these SWE jobs heating up as time goes, and it'll only get more competitive as people vy for that mid six figure job. Maybe I just think that leetcode is not the most challenging thing after lots of practice... I personally feel like for the work that SWE do, it's not specialized or as skill/knowledge-heavy as the other engineering careers so I'm wondering if tech salaries are in a bubble right now due to tech companies being a new form of industry and the salaries will drop to what Mechanical Engineers are making when the demand of programmers catches up in a decade or two. What do you guys think? Obviously no one can predict the future, especially not the future of tech, but I feel you guys in the industry, esp the ones from Web 1.0 have some insights. I do love computer science and the unique challenges and problems that come with this, but I'm also interested in pursuing an ML PhD or a career in finance, and I'm not sure on what decision I should make. #techcareers #leetcode
Sometimes I think our industry/field needs to do what medicine does and have someone like the ama to basically make the industry regulated like a cartel so we don’t have a mass influx of people who oversaturate the supply of software engineers. That being said, one of the greatest things about SWE is that the barriers of entry are relatively/laughably low compared to other high paying industries that require either ridiculous pedigree/connections to get (I.e. ib, top consulting firms, law) or insane years of education (medicine) or a combo of both.
This is completely wrong. The reason this industry attracts top talent is because of the ease of regulation and barrier to entry. More regulation will sway people away from the industry, like it did to banking. Also, even if the barrier to entry is easy, you will get piped if you don't know what you're doing. No swe can bs to principal engineer levels (or l6+).
...that’s exactly what I’m saying. This industry has no regulation so because of that people flock to join and saturate the supply of swes. That being said, you make an excellent last point. However I still think the entry point is insanely lenient + risks over saturation. However like I said before the low barrier of entry is great cause it lets people try the industry/field.
How many times has someone stated to you: "oh, you're a software engineer? Oh, I could never do that, I'm not smart enough" This ideology will continue for another 10 years AFAIAC
The supply of techies in the US is artificially limited because of immigration issues. Look at tech salaries in Canada and Europe. That's what it'll eventually mean revert to. That being said, the demand for techies will continue to be strong. So it'll still be a healthy and viable career.
Weirdly enough, it is still way easier to secure EU job for a foreigner (non EU) unlike the US.
Immigration to the US is over bud. Get ready for a 1924 style closing of the borders within the decade.
I think it goes beyond the simple supply versus demand issue. It seems that tech is scalable in such a way that other engineering professions are not. BigLaw is all about billable hours, that can’t scale well. IB is about making people sacrifice as much as possible so your deal teams are as lean (understaffed) as possible. Medicine is similar to BigLaw, except it has less opportunity for pricing to come down because people care about their health. Tech seems scalable at such a high rate that the salaries seem to reflect that. People have said pro athlete salaries are in a bubble and it makes no sense why they haven’t come down given so many people are talented and hard working. But sports have scalable media that makes them insanely profitable, naturally the athletes and coaches will share in on that profits. The salaries in tech are not that absurd. What makes it so well paying are the RSUs, which are dependent on the market cap of these firms
You are wrong about the job being relatively easy. You are probably a highly talented person (in the conventional IQ test) and are probably handling a lot of responsibility and ambiguity. You could take your talents and be a good lawyer, doctor, or chill at a low stress job like being a bartender or barista. What gotta stop you? These giant salaries!
CS salaries are totally in a bubble. The next recession will market correct this. This is why I didn't move to Cali and buy a $2 million house with a phantom income that is unsustainable. Foreclosures will be rampant soon enough. OP - my advice is start saving your money now and don't live beyond your means.
I dont currently see a sign of it slowing down. Present day biggest tech companies are ridiculously profitable and require complex tech skills to remain competitive. As long as this remains the case- wages will remain high and keep climbing up. The think that can slow down the pace of increase is companies gradually learning to effectively scale out of the west coast. Most already have some presence, but these are relatively small and nowhere close to offset the high demand for swe these companies have. Once salaries are so high so that they dont justify the engineer's value to the company's they will be forced to aggressively move their operations overseas if they want to sustain growth which will keep us salaries high (at least in the short and mid terms) but also push the salaries in global tech hubs rapidly higher
I don’t agree with the idea that other fields are more challenging because they use Fourier transforms or other math concepts. The math that’s actually required in most cases is very surface level compared to say, proving tight bounds or convergence of Fourier series. Also, it may be specialized but it doesn’t evolve as quickly as generalist topics in software. Yeah, there’s a lower barrier to entry for software. But to be a great software engineer requires a combination of mental agility, focus, intelligence, open mindedness and people skills that isn’t very common. And I think there’s a very high TC ceiling if you have these traits. Not everyone can deal with constant learning and pushing oneself the way we do in this field. I don’t think you necessarily have to specialize to do well. TC: 600k YOE: <4 I’m a generalist (I don’t work at Microsoft)
do you work in finance?
I have a slightly different view, informed by working outside of fang until a couple years ago. Tech salaries for fangmula (or whatever) are indeed unsustainable, it's driven by larger than normal profit margins due to combination of factors like network effect and no real competition, crazy vc/Saudi money. As long as those margins/vc-money continue the compensation will too. Software compensation outside of these companies is more stable
Something definitely smells fishy. How many times have you talked to a colleague about how your being paid way too much for what you do? There’s an artificial scarcity right now that’s being driven by the idea that software engineering is a “talent” based profession (similar to a professional basketball player). However, we all know that software engineering is a learned skill, and given enough learning and experience, most people can do what we do. I suppose our barrier right now is that most Americans would not want to do a software job, but I believe more people will look to software in order to secure a middle class lifestyle as jobs get eliminated.
"Most people can do what we do" I saw a dude at the parking lot trying to talk to the ticket reader. Also, if most Americans didn't want the job, it could've (and is) been outsourced for the most part. But no, companies prefer hiring "talented" individuals here rather than sweatshops overseas. There is certainly value in what we learn and do here.
There are certainly cognitive skills required for software engineering that are not easily mastered. It is like being a good surgeon or piano player. Sure, many people can learn a procedure and rules of a known system, but the quality of the outcome differs greatly. I believe a more interesting question is how those skills are measured. I believe many people here would agree that it is not by leet code type of questions. Heck, people really think they can assess my problem solving skills better by asking those questions rather than taking a hard to earn degree in a hard science as a significant signal for it.