I am an L5 SWE at Google. I have 12+ years industry experience. Backend, web, mobile, machine learning, you name it. I joined the industry when people were actually passionate and good at building software. Now I am surrounded by 20 somethings at Google who can't code worth shit, don't give a fuck about the craft and make as much or more than I do. I'm making ~325k and my comp is actually going down starting this year vs last, and every year after until I get promo'ed, because my shares completely vested. As you know the promo process at Google is a joke and always has been. It was a fucking pain to get to L4, then to L5, and now L6 is even more painful. And leveling is completely fucked up now since pay is standardized across orgs, but obviously impact and difficulty isn't. You could be an L6 in some org no one cares about, like CorpEng and get paid the same as an L6 in Google Brain. I'm in one of the "good" orgs where the work is difficult and competition is fierce, so it's harder for me to level-up than if I were in some other crappy org. So the easiest thing for me would be to head to FB as E6 and make $500k+ a year. And I've got plenty of time to prepare for the bullshit whiteboarding sessions since I'm WFH until June. So why shouldn't I work at Facebook? Yeah, yeah, "ethics" you say. But Google is not much better since Sundar became CEO. Don't fool yourselves, I've probably been at Google longer than you and have seen ethics completely thrown out the window. I don't care about evidence supporting my confirmation bias. Tell me why I should *not* work at Facebook, please. #facebook #google
Code quality and engineering excellence 🥰
hahahaha
fair point and you are right. but im wondering, who would do a lateral transfer to FB or between any other FAANG? the pay bump wouldn't be significant enough imo id think they'd need to up-level to attract candidates
It will be a lateral transfer. And they don’t need to attract candidates.
Will FB interview you for E6, if you are L5? You should not work for FB if you love WLB. Everyone says it’s awful for a new E6
thanks bro. yeah I have > 12 YOE and was not *just* promoted to L5, so i was thinking E6
In the last year, cloud is turning into a place with bad wlb due to changes by TK and that is where a lot of hiring is so.. not a big difference wlb-wise between the two companies here given that cloud is where the hiring is.
At 12 YoE, what’s your preference. Depth or Breadth of knowledge?
neither. be practical. pick a project that you want to execute and go from there. i've wasted time learning breadth from dabbling in a bunch of areas. likewise depth by learning minutiae of frameworks and mathematics if you have to choose one, breadth, because eventually you'll see concepts, tools and math repeat, converge and unify. you will eventually forget depth, but will remember breadth
How do you sell breadth to the hiring manager (or do you need to)? In many instances (outside of Google), staff eng is a specialized area.
Why shouldn't I work for Facebook? That's a tough one, but I'll take a shot. Say I'm working at Facebook. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. Maybe I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, 'cause I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and fifteen hundred people that I never met and that I never had no problem with get killed. Now the politicians are sayin', "Send in the marines to secure the area" 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some kid from Southie takin' shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, 'cause he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile he realizes the only reason he was over there in the first place was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish over there to scare up domestic oil prices. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. They're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back, and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and fuckin' play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So now my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's walking to the fuckin' job interviews, which sucks 'cause the schrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorroids. And meanwhile he's starvin' 'cause every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what did I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. I figure, fuck it, while I'm at it, why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president.
Having to prove yourself again from scratch in a new team and a new company Having to write a high-stakes self-review every 6 months Still being surrounded by 20-somethings who almost certainly don’t give a fuck about the craft
tHE cRaFfT!
> Having to prove yourself again from scratch in a new team and a new company have had to do this so many times i've lost track > Having to write a high-stakes self-review every 6 months G is 6mo cycle too. but not high stakes, below L6 you'd need to harass people to get a bad rating. you saying it's easy to get a bad rating at FB? > Still being surrounded by 20-somethings who almost certainly don’t give a fuck about the craft yeah. going to be true for every big tech company tho
Well - the two things that stand out for fb: 1. Fast pace 2. Accountability for business impact instead of just execution The former is tough for some to adjust and the latter can be very stressful for people that just want to be told what to do and get credit for it (some senior people are used to being directed to solve a specific tough challenge, its often not like that in fb). I love it, others hate it
based answer, def something to consider. thanks bro.
On a side note, curious in how FB rewards longer term impact (aka landings). Generally find people getting promoted at most companies for launching stuff with short term spike but falling flat after that.
Fb is shit , says many of my friends who were here before . They love money but nothing else at all .
The compensation team is now requesting proof of current comp or offer... that ship has sailed when you bro’s could just inflate your comp and we just took your word. 🚢
i'm an eng. i can figure out how to fake my current comp by editing the DOM of whatever "proof" they want. lol if facebook eng is indeed this stupid, that gives me second thoughts
lol proof of offer, no one gives a written offer until you verbally accept.
Well, facebook as a product is awful and people hate it also I love that 2007-8 are the golden years in this post
fair enough yeah programmers have gotten exponentially worse over time as it's gotten more popular. i am way worse than the "good" coders in the 90s. law of large numbers or some shit.
“facebook as a product is awful and people hate it” lol at people living in the US bubble. It’s not.