CompensationSep 25, 2018
NewKishiug

Why some swe don’t care about comp?

I work at a startup with these couple brilliant 10X engineers, much more talented than me and with more experience than me. Yet, I know they make 30% less than me and 25X less equity (!) despite having joined in the same time span. They say they don’t care about comp, they care about doing cool stuff and say that they get paid enough to afford the quality of life they want. Why is that these people exist just in the software engineering field and not in other highly skilled professions, such as law, medicine or accounting? They drive down the average compensation in the market for everybody, and give to employers the idea that software engineers are gullible individuals who can be tricked in the offer process in exchange for immaterial “perks” and bs. Mind you, I am not talking about non-profit work, in which case I’m totally in support of. These are companies that are very very much for profit.

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Wayfair addA30 Sep 25, 2018

What does “25x less” mean? Did you mean 1/25 of your equity?

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Kishiug OP Sep 25, 2018

Yes. I mean I have 200,000 stock options (valued at $500k) and they have 8,000 options (valued at $25k). This shit is incredibly common in startups for people who don’t know or have no interest in negotiating. And I’m specifically disturbed about the people who have no interest. I’ve been at 2 startups and they are always there, even if they are very talented folks which could command stellar packages.

Wayfair addA30 Sep 25, 2018

You sure they didn’t split or dilute or something between their awards and your award? Happens a lot with new funding rounds. They may have been awarded 8,000 options that split into 800,000 options after their award due to another round. They might just not know that their 8,000 award is actually 800,000 now.

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RhpJ71 Sep 25, 2018

There is technical focus and there is personal focus. A lot of the 10x engineers are not as much into personal life -- hence the reduced value for money.

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Kishiug OP Sep 25, 2018

But why it doesn’t happen in other fields? Seriously, if you want just technical focus go volunteer on crazy hard open source projects, don’t ruin the market!!

LinkedIn LiqdSwords Sep 25, 2018

Yes it does. Have you seen how much lab scientists get paid these days?

Microsoft FreshPrinc Sep 25, 2018

Because for some people having the most paper money stocks isn't the most important thing in their lives. Negotiating isn't easy or natural to some people. Besides if they are as good as you say the money will come one way or another. Just because you made more this time doesn't mean you won't get stuck in leetcode hell some day when their passion lands them a VP job.

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Kishiug OP Sep 25, 2018

Fair point, but it’s not going to happen in their cases. I’m 32, this guy I’m talking about is like 48 (did the math looking at his graduation date on resume), before joining the startup spent 15 (yes, 15) years in a small company doing swe work, without ever getting a promotion (his LinkedIn shows a single 15yr slot of “member of technical staff”). And this is all while this guy being absolutely brilliant, he always comes up with the most elegant solutions and architectures, he’s definitely a technical mentor for me, despite me making much more than him. Seriously, VP? Plus, I very much enjoy my craft, and spend considerable amount of my free time reading up on tech content and books (going through CLRS as we speak for the 5th time in my career, even if I’m not looking to actively interview, I just like the topics), so the fact that I value compensation doesn’t have anything to do with my (lack of) passion.

Microsoft FreshPrinc Sep 25, 2018

Good for you, you are the one yourself that stated the other guy was better than you. I'm just using your own words. I'm sure this guy is still making more than 95% of the US population, let alone the world. If that's good enough for him, so be it. Take responsibility for your own damn life is the moral of the story. It sounds like you're going out and working hard to earn more; good for you. But sitting here whining that this guy is dragging down the average is some childish, petty nonsense that you need to get over.

Netflix Ribosome Sep 25, 2018

Some folks just don’t care about comp that much. I personally know someone who’s easily one of the most brilliant engineer I ever worked with - and he’s all about working on things he’s enthusiastic about and never cared about $$$

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Kishiug OP Sep 25, 2018

Yes, but why you don't find physicians in the same situation? Majority of physicians are incredibly enthusiastic about their work (it couldn't be any other way), and yet the hospitals hiring them will not try to "exploit" their enthusiasm by trying to pay them less than what they could otherwise be paid, for the most part they immediately offer the right compensation to them, without negotiation.

Intel nononsense Sep 25, 2018

Those people do exist in other fields. Lawyers who work in public defender offices, legal defense fund, ACLU, etc. Doctors who work in rural communities or overseas in poor countries. There are people everywhere who care about the work more than the money. They do tend to be some of the happiest in their jobs, FWIW.

Amazon Trenbolone Sep 25, 2018

Because medicine and law is a selective profession. Only people who really want to make good money will sacrifice 8+ years of their life for the schooling to get into medicine (or 7 for law). This is all while telling people how they are doing it for passion and not the money; give me a break; nobody is that big of a masochist. Source: Dad is a Radiation Oncologist and all of his rich colleagues mention how they are doing it for the money and how they are happy.

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Kishiug OP Sep 25, 2018

This is the first answer that really makes sense. And makes me question my life choices so far.

Amazon Trenbolone Sep 25, 2018

You can always go back. A large majority of my pre-Med friends were Ex-IT. I was Pre-Med/Comp Sci double major but didn’t want to do the long schooling. Now I wish I did; you make crazy good money as a specialist

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innovatorx Sep 25, 2018

Because it’s not the money that brings happiness. Once you pass a certain income, relative to your lifestyle and needs, the money is much less a factor. Maybe he likes being a shining star to dim witted interns.

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Kishiug OP Sep 25, 2018

This is so blatantly false I can’t even begin to articulate. Given the present moment, yes, additional income to artificially inflate your lifestyle is not good and leads to less happiness. But tell me that if I sock away and invest all my additional income to retire at 45 instead of 65 is not going to bring me immense happiness? The truth is, most folks who say shit like that never sat in front of an excel spreadsheet and modeled savings contributions, investment returns, inflation, and withdrawal rate over the course of 50+ years. It’s eye opening, and will show you that even a portfolio of 5M+ can be wiped out over a long retirement period, and let’s not even count if you want to leave something to your heirs. Do that excel exercise and then come back and tell me with your straight face that the difference between 150k and 450k comp is not going to bring massive happiness to your future self.

Amazon Trenbolone Sep 25, 2018

LOL. I could walk out on my job tomorrow and literally tell my boss to suck a fat one and there’d be no repercussions; want to know why? My father built an empire where I never have to worry about money. He made $1-3m each year as a doc (now retired and lives in Hawaii). Come to our Yacht sometime and you’ll see how unhappy we are.

Google prodaccess Sep 25, 2018

They spent all their Experience Points in Dexterity and Strength and none in Wisdom or Charisma.

Chase mEyG62 Sep 25, 2018

In my experience, people who say not to care about the money are making significantly more than me.

FutureAdvisor wAvH13 Sep 25, 2018

I think we should teach all engineers how to negotiate and how much it can compound over time, similar to what many women are now taught. I’ve seen too many case of smart engineers not negotiating at all and taking very low offers compared to their peers. I recently received a very low ball offer from a startup valued at a billion, and I gotta wonder how many engineers took that offer without negotiating.

Oracle qkxnrdl Sep 26, 2018

They don't want to leetcode