Why some swe don’t care about comp?

New / Eng
Kishiug

New Eng

Kishiug
Sep 25, 2018 58 Comments

I work at a startup with these couple brilliant 10X engineers, much more talented than me and with more experience than me. Yet, I know they make 30% less than me and 25X less equity (!) despite having joined in the same time span.

They say they don’t care about comp, they care about doing cool stuff and say that they get paid enough to afford the quality of life they want.

Why is that these people exist just in the software engineering field and not in other highly skilled professions, such as law, medicine or accounting?

They drive down the average compensation in the market for everybody, and give to employers the idea that software engineers are gullible individuals who can be tricked in the offer process in exchange for immaterial “perks” and bs.

Mind you, I am not talking about non-profit work, in which case I’m totally in support of. These are companies that are very very much for profit.

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TOP 58 Comments
  • New
    innovatorx

    New

    innovatorx
    Because it’s not the money that brings happiness. Once you pass a certain income, relative to your lifestyle and needs, the money is much less a factor. Maybe he likes being a shining star to dim witted interns.
    Sep 25, 2018 14
    • Amazon / Eng
      Trenbolone

      Go to company page Amazon Eng

      Trenbolone
      @RhpJ71: here’s the thing; people PRETEND that they are happy making a mediocre salary but nobody really is. But what’s easier: making a huge amount of sacrifices to eventually make more money? Or simply lay back and do your 9-to-5 job making 60 grand a year and be done with it?

      The fact is that poor people say money doesn’t buy happiness because they’ve never had it and rich people say it so they won’t look like assholes. It’s a comical world we live in
      Sep 29, 2018
    • New / Eng
      RhpJ71

      New Eng

      RhpJ71
      You are going at this again. I feel sorry for you that you have such a narrow view. Just ACCEPT people the way they are. To assert that people don't know what makes them happy is super conceited of your own judgements.

      Happiness is a state of mind. I agree that one needs money to be comfortable and comfort brings happiness. But why do you think Elon sleeps on the shop floor? Why does Warren Buffet fly all over the world on business trips at 70+ years of age? Why did Trump become a president to be ridiculed by everyone? Why did Steve Jobs work till he almost died? Your theory on happiness does not explain these people. Money brings happiness but it is not be all and end all.
      Sep 29, 2018
  • New / Eng
    RhpJ71

    New Eng

    RhpJ71
    There is technical focus and there is personal focus. A lot of the 10x engineers are not as much into personal life -- hence the reduced value for money.
    Sep 25, 2018 13
    • Microsoft / Eng
      HanDouble

      Go to company page Microsoft Eng

      BIO
      Hate coding quizzes but studying hard for better future!
      HanDouble
      Lots of teachers become teachers because they don’t have other choices and don’t want to work hard. People give you all kinds of bull shit reasons as if they are angels but most of people are not being honest. This is similar to answering for interview questions. You tell them nice story about how you overcome workplace challenges, how you resolved issues with conflicting people and why you left your last job. You don’t say you moved to Google from Microsoft because of money. You say that because of new challenges etc which is true but not being up front about the main motivation.
      Sep 25, 2018
    • Facebook
      FBTopAnnon

      Go to company page Facebook

      FBTopAnnon
      ^ this.
      Sep 25, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng
    Trenbolone

    Go to company page Amazon Eng

    Trenbolone
    Because medicine and law is a selective profession. Only people who really want to make good money will sacrifice 8+ years of their life for the schooling to get into medicine (or 7 for law). This is all while telling people how they are doing it for passion and not the money; give me a break; nobody is that big of a masochist.

    Source: Dad is a Radiation Oncologist and all of his rich colleagues mention how they are doing it for the money and how they are happy.
    Sep 25, 2018 5
    • New / Eng
      Kishiug

      New Eng

      Kishiug
      OP
      I know specialists who make 1-2M a year working as W2 employees in their early 40s. More if they are partners in a private practice.

      I’ve dated a couple physicians before and the baseline is 300-400k fresh of residency without a lucrative specialization.

      A guy I personally know clears 2M as an anhestetiologist (pardon the spelling, I don’t make 2M so fuck it) in his early 40s working for a hospital.
      Sep 25, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng
      HanDouble

      Go to company page Microsoft Eng

      BIO
      Hate coding quizzes but studying hard for better future!
      HanDouble
      Alright, I should persuade my kids to go to medical school. I am way too old to pursue it now.
      Sep 25, 2018
  • Wayfair
    addA30

    Go to company page Wayfair

    addA30
    What does “25x less” mean? Did you mean 1/25 of your equity?
    Sep 25, 2018 3
    • Wayfair
      addA30

      Go to company page Wayfair

      addA30
      You sure they didn’t split or dilute or something between their awards and your award? Happens a lot with new funding rounds. They may have been awarded 8,000 options that split into 800,000 options after their award due to another round. They might just not know that their 8,000 award is actually 800,000 now.
      Sep 25, 2018
    • New / Eng
      Kishiug

      New Eng

      Kishiug
      OP
      No. We joined roughly at the same time. And I looked at the fully diluted cap table as part of my due diligence before joining the company.

      And without talking about equity, the 30% discount on the cash comp is more real than ever.

      Also, a couple other folks (the ones who didn’t know how to negotiate, not the ones who just work for the glory, which I’m disturbed by) left the company and in their parting 1-1 with me as peers they told me they left because they “found out” their equity package was ridiculously low compared to the others. The company then tried to give them a new equity grant to bring them closer to the good comp, but at that point they were burned out and left.

      And these are great performers, and the same thing happened at the last startup I was at. It somehow happens a lot in startups, and it involves also very senior engineers! Go figure
      Sep 25, 2018
  • Microsoft / Eng
    FreshPrinc

    Go to company page Microsoft Eng

    FreshPrinc
    Because for some people having the most paper money stocks isn't the most important thing in their lives. Negotiating isn't easy or natural to some people.

    Besides if they are as good as you say the money will come one way or another. Just because you made more this time doesn't mean you won't get stuck in leetcode hell some day when their passion lands them a VP job.
    Sep 25, 2018 2
    • New / Eng
      Kishiug

      New Eng

      Kishiug
      OP
      Fair point, but it’s not going to happen in their cases.

      I’m 32, this guy I’m talking about is like 48 (did the math looking at his graduation date on resume), before joining the startup spent 15 (yes, 15) years in a small company doing swe work, without ever getting a promotion (his LinkedIn shows a single 15yr slot of “member of technical staff”). And this is all while this guy being absolutely brilliant, he always comes up with the most elegant solutions and architectures, he’s definitely a technical mentor for me, despite me making much more than him.

      Seriously, VP?

      Plus, I very much enjoy my craft, and spend considerable amount of my free time reading up on tech content and books (going through CLRS as we speak for the 5th time in my career, even if I’m not looking to actively interview, I just like the topics), so the fact that I value compensation doesn’t have anything to do with my (lack of) passion.
      Sep 25, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng
      FreshPrinc

      Go to company page Microsoft Eng

      FreshPrinc
      Good for you, you are the one yourself that stated the other guy was better than you. I'm just using your own words.

      I'm sure this guy is still making more than 95% of the US population, let alone the world. If that's good enough for him, so be it.

      Take responsibility for your own damn life is the moral of the story. It sounds like you're going out and working hard to earn more; good for you. But sitting here whining that this guy is dragging down the average is some childish, petty nonsense that you need to get over.
      Sep 25, 2018