After PhD- Industry or academics

Amazon
Srdu83

Go to company page Amazon

Srdu83
Oct 29, 2019 21 Comments

I have been on blind too much lately and by looking at the toxic tech enviornmet really forces me to question, is it really worth joing industry. Recently interned at Amzn and honestly one of the most terrible experience. The team i was placed in had absolute zero sense of ML practices. On top of it when i see all these posts on pip, dev plans, pivots and “managers have to complete their pip quota” and “was promissed xyz and manager stabbed me” makes me question is it really worth joining the industry. Or it really depends if you are lucky enough to work with good people. The other option is to go for a post doc and then for tenure track position. I know academics is slow and far less pay but when i see these prof working on their own shit, publishing papers, writing grants, travelling for conferences, no interference from chair and all confuses me. till now i have been working towards finishing my PhD asap and building skills which are more relevant to industry. Should I really reconsider this thought and start adding more academic flavour to my research.

Really want to know your thoughts what should i do. I still have 1.5years left.

Thanks

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  • Amazon
    thule

    Go to company page Amazon

    thule
    I wouldn't base your entire industry experience on one poor internship - Amzn, and several other large tech cos, tend to have high variance among teams and managers when it comes to competence, toxicity, and WLB.

    I'd also not base your perception of industry on blind. The worst and most shocking experiences bubble to the top here. I've worked in industry a few years now and really love the environment compared to academia - that path has its own set of potential problems.

    This is not to say it's a bad idea to pursue postgrad if that's appealing to you. I'd just recommend doing at least one more internship in industry (and some place different than Amazon) to see if you leave with a better taste in your mouth.
    Oct 29, 2019 4
    • Amazon
      Srdu83

      Go to company page Amazon

      Srdu83
      OP
      Two things. one is that people get piped because they are too casual about the work and ignore details which are crucial for project success.

      Second is absolute lack of capability to drive projects independently and lack of understanding. In your experience which of the two have higher percentage of people in it.
      One thing in Amazon I overheard was that its all about wether you can make your manager look good in front of others. was on call with the business side where they were dissecting a recent test that failed. and now when i think about it everyone just spoke to prove that they were right (obviously in a subtle way) and there was rarely any “ownership”. I guess everyone went home chest thumping that how the business proved engineers wrong and vice versa.
      Oct 30, 2019
    • Amazon
      thule

      Go to company page Amazon

      thule
      From what I can tell within Amazon, it seems there's big variance between orgs and teams when it comes to the general 'culture' relating to things you described.

      In my org, the biggest reason people have gotten pipped is due to being a drag on their team/laziness. We've not had issues where expectations of work has been ambiguous - that's either a misunderstanding that's a shared fault, or the person didn't follow a reasonable problem discovery/solving process, usually to cut corners to meet a bad estimate that they made. I think I've seen a pip once so far due to just not getting work done even after being approached for it before the pip. Others in my org confirm this: put your fair share in and you'll be fine.

      Our org's teams have often taken ownership of issues when they're caused by them. My manager has taken responsibility for issues I've caused other teams in front of his boss before: I'm extremely satisfied working under him and our org because they actually walk the walk. It sucks to hear that other orgs basically do the opposite.

      Our management chain is also composed of people who regularly meet with, hang out with, and have previously worked alongside researchers/engineers. I imagine this helps stop the toxic 'other-ism' between management and scientists/engineers.

      The more I hear from others the more I find out my team at Amazon is really unique in some of these respects, but I'm certainly not the only one with positive things to say. I also think positive reviews are less shared in general. But if I were you, I'd intern somewhere different than hope to get a good team at Amazon.
      Oct 30, 2019
  • Google
    kielbasa

    Go to company page Google

    PRE
    Amazon, Yahoo, Microsoft
     kielbasa
    Academia can get political too. Getting tenure is arduous and universities require a track record of publications. Getting papers published can be frustrating given all the reviewers, committees and egos you must deal with. You’re not immune to human behavior by going into academia. I personally got frustrated with academia due to more bureaucracy than industry and chose the latter. I do think academics have more flexibility over a creative process, but they have to put up with less efficiency and much lower pay. I wanted to move faster and get paid more. Figure out what’s important to you.
    Oct 29, 2019 1
  • New / Product
    Maryam

    New Product

    BIO
    SWE —> PM YoE 15
     Maryam
    Go the academic route, your TC and LWB will be better in the long run. The TC will come from consulting. My bil chairs a department and has been making $5M a year just from speaking and consulting fees. And he is in statistics in a third tier uni similar to SUNY.
    Anyway, this is probably not the norm but my understanding that it is the norm for top tier university professors. The key is, do what you love and over the years you will perfect the other stuff or at least find the balance that works for you.
    Oct 29, 2019 0
  • Amazon is the worst company on earth. How can you decide based on work experience in one shitty company.
    Oct 29, 2019 0
  • Do not. I repeat... do not, extrapolate from Amazon to the rest of the industry. Amazon is the one shithole in the tech industry. A place of great despair and utter discontent. A place where good people turn into wolfs and Bezos turns into a multi-Billionaire. I've had multiple offers from Amazon and declined all. I get recruiter emails on a daily basis and answer politely that I would rather cut my balls before joining Bezo's slave ship. So please, don't take this horrible place and conclude that the rest of the industry is like it. Yes, there are other bad places with bad culture. But there are also great places with a great culture.
    Oct 29, 2019 0