Breaking into the ‘old boys club’
I work for a company that have a LOT of men in upper management. I work in the intersection of business and tech(Product Manager), coming from a tech background so not a lot of women similar to me here that I can relate or talk to. I am almost always excluded in meetings that I’m supposed to be in. I almost never get a chance to speak during meetings since they’re always talking over me.
I’ve taken it up with my manager and the tech leads have noticed it as well and brought it up with business group (who I have to interact and learn from everyday) but they don’t seem to change.
I’ve had 1:1s, socialized with them at work events but there’s no way I can get through to be accepted by them. It almost feels like wanting to be accepted by a popular clique in high school.
It was very hard but I overcame my imposter syndrome and understood that I do a pretty good job at work so would hate to leave for this reason and this is the only reason I would leave.
What should I do? Start interviewing at other places? Brave it out? Anyone else that’s been through something similar(m/f doesn’t matter), care to share your experiences?
For reference, I’m not white, am female and have had this job for exactly a year.
TC 250K.
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You should also keep a detailed timeline of the events and who said what. It will come handy if you decide to sue over gender discrimination
And it's a learning opportunity, like, how to thrive in shitty condktions. Stay for the lessons, leave when lessons start repeating
And I like what you said - if the lessons start repeating, leave. Sound advice! Thanks.
If folks speak over you - make them respect you. Call them out. Be polite and very firm.
You’ve done the social stuff but that doesn’t replace showing them how you want to be treated. Whether they are acting like that because you are not a male, or not white doesn’t matter. Establish how you want and should be treated and enlist people to help you. You may never be a part of the boys club, but membership is not the only way to be respected. Remember that. You don’t have to be their friend for them to treat you well.
If your leads see it and agree - have them speak up to the offenders in person and in meetings. This will signal you should be respected, too.
If the other teams do not understand your role and the respect it warrants - evangelize. Help them understand how your role plays with theirs and how you help them succeed. Tell them what you need them to do to help them succeed. Be reasonable and polite but very firm.
If it all fails interview and go somewhere else. Plenty of companies that make space for people of all colors and capabilities to be effective.
But definitely ask yourself if your body language, voice and confidence projection is where it should be. Hire a career or voice coach if you need to, because this will follow you at every job. If you already excel at it, great - maybe this company doesn’t deserve you.
I would stand up for myself but don’t want to sound very authoritative and create a scene when there is more important work that needs to be done.
Do you have a recommendation for a career or a voice coach? I do speak loudly but am not sure if it’s loud or clear enough. Some coaching should help me improve regardless of where I am today.
I think you have to be able to navigate around this issue as a woman. You have to have a personal relationship with the people who are at the meeting. It takes time to cultivate this, especially its harder in a large corp. (since there are more people)
First your boss would have to be someone respected within the company. Then he would be able to give you advice how to navigate and influence the inner political circle. I hate to say this, but it’s just politics. Some people are good at it and some suck at it. I myself suck at it but I try to suck less by asking for advice from others.
I think you have to look deep into yourself and know what you’re good at. Don’t copy anyone else or try to be what someone else is good at. I was always an individual contributor and was pretty vocal about not wanting to manage people. So I never had to and was able to work with pretty high level execs so I don’t have to deal w politics.