Tenured Prof to HFT buy-side

New
buligag

New

buligag
Dec 22, 2020 79 Comments

I am considering leaving a tenured associate prof (TC:~200K in an expensive city with 2 kids / CS dpt / 35yo with zero industry experience / my research is quite applied) for a quant research position in an HFT firm (one of the usual suspects). I did a few interviews which went OK, and salary negotiations are likely to start in January. Some of my/colleagues' former PhDs/PostDocs were offered a TC:400/500K in firms of similar caliber.

1. WLB in that firm is very OK (from what I have gathered from several forums), but indeed absolutely cannot compare to a tenured prof position. I do not personally know any colleague going from a tenured position to HFT (which is scary). Any comment? How common is it? I know of a few cases in tech.

2. Colleagues are telling me I would be crazy to leave a tenured position, but (like me) most of them have very little knowledge of the industry. What's a/the typical trajectory for somebody working on the buy-side when reaching 45yo, say? [no, I'm not planning to retire at 45yo] How easy is it to switch to a different firm? Are you guys still excited to go to work after 10y in the HFT industry? Is this industry likely to still go strong in 10 years time?

3. What would be a reasonable starting package? How does a typical TC look like after 5y in the industry?

Money is indeed a motivating factor, but working with very bright people on applied problems *is* definitely very exciting (+ the impact of most academic research is way over-rated + supervising not-that-good PhD students can be tiring + actual research/coding (which I enjoy tremendously) is only a very small part of academic life). I have a lot of respect for the people working in that firm, but I am still on the fence.

#finance #hft #academia #tenured

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TOP 79 Comments
  • New
    NoKids™️

    New

    NoKids™️
    My PhD friends from Stanford, Harvard, MIT got 400-500K first year TC offers from the usual prop shops. Today, most of them are at 1M+ TC with ~5 YOE. One guy got fired, but he was at Citadel so...

    WLB is better than assistant professor but still not as good as G/FB RS.

    Regarding academia vs industry, read “The Man Who Solved the Market”. Math professor started his own quant firm at age 40-50. Now a billionaire.

    In my opinion, stop writing over-hyped grants and forcing out incremental papers. Start doing work that produces immediate, tangible results — and get paid a lot while you’re at it. Not to mention the HFT colleagues are, on average, smarter than university faculty and PhD students.
    Dec 22, 2020 8
    • Google
      mdJr58

      Go to company page Google

      mdJr58
      I worked at a HFT prop. Most of the quants were academics before moving to finance. You will be fine.
      Dec 24, 2020
    • New
      RGHQ28

      New

      RGHQ28
      "Man who solved the market". I grew up in East-Setauket and a bunch of kids from my middle/high school had parents who were high up at RenTech. Didn't realize how big of a deal Simons was until after I graduated. I thought he was just a local celebrity.
      Mar 9, 2021
  • New
    br3f

    New

    br3f
    I think there's a lot of people on blind romanticizing HFT life simply because there aren't that many here and grass seems greener.
    1. Senior HFT quant managers spend very little time on research and development, which is the number one reason for burnout among high levels.
    2. "working with very bright people on applied problems..." = Lots and lots of politics
    Dec 22, 2020 9
    • In reply to”My (maybe wrong) assumption was that, since the metric to is very clear and well-defined, there is not much room for politics. And the hierarchy seems relatively flat in most HFT firms”..

      There are many paths to reach the same goal. A lot of people assume that their way is the only way to do things, resulting in fights, politics and back-stabbing.
      Dec 23, 2020
    • Google
      huli lifer

      Go to company page Google

      huli lifer
      Also re: clear metric --> no room for politics.

      Unfortunately, no. There's the intermediate problem of incentives and attribution. At least in Google, the metrics are clear but many people are playing the game of trying to get their name on everything they can, so that more metric can be attributed to them, and thus promo/TC. You also have factions and competing teams who are ready to take your idea and run with it, so you have to be careful what you say to whom. Then there's "visibility," the invisible fourth axis of promo...
      Dec 23, 2020
  • I was in HFT, it is a shit show! Lots of people have no clue what it is and only heard rumour of glamorous TC, I would not work for Citadel no matter what they pay, all HFT shops are super toxic environments
    Dec 23, 2020 10
  • Google / R&D
    misko

    Go to company page Google R&D

    misko
    Most quants fail. Comp will look great on paper but it's a churning machine, if you don't make profit with 1-2 years you'll be out with little to show for. I know many. Only the top 10-20% survive. 80-90% end up leaving / fired.

    We always like to look and tell stories about the extremes but the reality is that luck and timing is more important than whatever academic skills you bring to the table. Those kids at GetCo 15 years were less smart than you are but they were at the right place at the right time and they made it.

    Sorry to say, smart doesn't win. All the great strategies are very simple and they are few and sometimes stem from structural advantages. Every firm has only a few strats making money, everything else is hopeful. Not knowing any more about you you're likely going to be in that bucket.

    If you like academia, stay there. If you don't, welcome to the jungle.
    Dec 23, 2020 3
  • Amazon
    zer02

    Go to company page Amazon

    zer02
    This post feels like an undergrad LARPing as a professor
    Dec 22, 2020 1
    • Rakuten / Ops
      tooQ10

      Go to company page Rakuten Ops

      PRE
      Rakuten
      BIO
      Obligatory: YoE 20, TC 43k. Such is life for us non-SWE office monkeys!
      tooQ10
      I was thinking the same thing - I'm a recent PhD who went right back to his 40k paper-shuffler office job after graduation - but props to OP if s/he really is making that kind of money.
      Dec 23, 2020