compensation decline at Amazon? Refresh policy?

It seems like Amazon does not pay an annual bonus only a signing bonus that lasts 2 years from the date of hire. After the 2 year mark it looks like all income is either Salary or RSU. I know most here include signing bonus as part of their TC but i prefer to leave it out as it is one time in nature. RSU at many firms, due to generous annual refresh policies, is more reliable and therefore i am comfortable including that in my estimated TC. What is the refresh policy at Amazon? The concern i have with joining is once the signing bonus runs out you are left with 2 years of the back loaded RSU package (40%/40% i think it is) and unless there are some good refreshers its likely that TC will decline after those 2 back loaded years end. How generous is amazon at refreshing?

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Akamai Technologies hpBF22 OP Jul 5, 2019

Have you witnessed people leave for this reason?

Amazon cayde Jul 5, 2019

Lol. That's like the main reason why people leave.

eBay sLxwA828 Jul 5, 2019

No refreshers. It’s a reason why a lot of amazoners leave by year 4 Edit: I meant no yearly refreshers

Akamai Technologies hpBF22 OP Jul 5, 2019

Why bother join a company if the only career path is to leave at year 4 or else suffer a precipitous decline in TC?

Bloomberg the1 Jul 5, 2019

Why stay longer than 4 years? Chances are you will stop learning at that point. Change is good!

Amazon sptk67 Jul 5, 2019

Work your ass off and get promoted on Year 2, and on year 4. You ll get about +30% in TC at each promotion I've heard...

Akamai Technologies hpBF22 OP Jul 5, 2019

What are the odds of that happening though?

Amazon sptk67 Jul 5, 2019

Check out the comments here [Blind] Check out this post! How much raise in TC between L4 and L5? (Amazon) https://us.teamblind.com/s/HsWVhrhP

Amazon amazons Jul 5, 2019

Um, lots of misinformation here - there are absolutely refreshers after year 4. It’s less common before that unless you’re top tier or the stock price is not increasing as expected. The main people see a cliff after year 4 is because their comp was inflated due to stock appreciation. If stock price exceeds our expectations, and you earn more than we targeted as a result, you’ll see a drop year 5 unless you’ve been promoted. Many of us have been in this case with the stock going up~5x over the last 5 years or so.

Amazon cayde Jul 5, 2019

You get refreshers the year of your past vest. 4 year vest, so you get refreshers in your 4th year to ensure that your 5th year has RSUs. Refreshers are weird in that, they are given fully for the next year and partially for the year after. Example: In 4th year, you may get stock worth 40k for your 5th year and 20k for your 6th year. Then in your 5th year, you will get 20k for your 6th and 20k for your 7th. I hate this model.

Akamai Technologies hpBF22 OP Jul 5, 2019

do the refreshers result in yearly RSU = (initial signing bonus + initial RSU) /4 ? In other words, do the refreshers compensate for the loss of the initial grant and signing bonus?

Amazon cayde Jul 5, 2019

Yes, but the big loss is stock growth. Your third and fourth year vests should be pretty big because they were granted at a time when the stock should have been far lower. Now you'll only get stock that's basically adjusted every year. So no more explosive bursts.

Google topCon Jul 5, 2019

Unless you're way over TCT, you'll get refreshers every year after year 2. You won't get refreshers in year 2 because, as you pointed out, initial grants will vest in year 3 and 4.

Chase (╯°□°)╯ Jul 5, 2019

Does the refresh policy have anything to do with level? For example are L6s or L7s refreshed on a more reliable basis?

Amazon amazons Jul 6, 2019

No - it’s calculated based on the difference between your projected TC and the target

IBM xlajduf Jul 5, 2019

Most of ppl at amazon worry about surviving another year rather than refreshers.

Weight Watchers xlax Jul 10, 2019

I understand that most people will see (or have in the past) a TC decline in year 5 due to the fact that they didn’t have 2+ years of stock appreciation to build into their vest. However, why is that a problem for people? The way I was looking at it, you should be pegging your expected earnings to the target number you were given and any stock appreciation is just a nice bonus on top. Is that not how most people look at it? Also, I was speaking with an Amazon recruiter who said that your TCT will never decline and will always have an upwards trajectory (although you might make less than your last year due to that appreciation issue). However, other threads I have read are contrary to this in that your TCT may actually go down depending on your rating. Is the recruiter lying?

Amazon sstar55 Jul 10, 2019

What is TCT?

Google topCon Jul 10, 2019

Target TC