Help !! PM-T or Manager, PM?

Amazon
WNzb77

Go to company page Amazon

WNzb77
Dec 22, 2021 87 Comments

Friends, I’m in a bind.

I have Prior tech background, 8 yrs at Amazon - Sr PM 5yrs + Manager Marketing (3 yrs). Now I’m moving internally and have several options with an offer for a PM-T (7 scoped) role.

But I’ve not accepted because I’m need the following info:
1. Does a Sr PM-T in AWS gets paid more than Manager, PM (non T, not AWS) - both L6?

2. Is there a better growth path for a people manager or a Principal ?

Any insights truly appreciate. TC $240, HV2.

Wrinkle - THANKS A LOT everyone for your answers! I now have a CTO offer from a startup with $350k total comp. Super comfortable with the tech there. I might take that one if all goes well.

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TOP 87 Comments
  • Amazon
    RagNBone

    Go to company page Amazon

    RagNBone
    Forget the salary, IC roles are generally easier to get to 7 take that
    Dec 22, 2021 3
    • Amazon
      RagNBone

      Go to company page Amazon

      RagNBone
      So here is how it works, have promoted folks

      Promo to Principal PM is easier than promo to Sr Mgr, PM because with a manager you need to display a lot of people management stuff (promoting others, performance management, hiring etc) which isn’t required for a Principal promo. That being said, I agree with the below comment that things change with a T because the tech bar isn’t easy to clear. If I were you, I would get promoted to a Principal PM (non tech) and then figure out whatever route you want to move to, Manager vs T. If you definitely want to choose one of these two, choose Mgr path and use the experience to apply for PM manager roles outside of Amazon as it is easier to crack higher levels for managerial roles vs IC roles
      Dec 22, 2021
    • Amazon
      WNzb77

      Go to company page Amazon

      WNzb77
      OP
      Thank you. But as you noted below, I’ve passed the T bar in the current offer I have in hand ( interviewed by Sr SDM) and also feeling confident about my ability to perform technically (ex CTO)
      Dec 24, 2021
  • Reddit / Product
    SnooTacks

    Go to company page Reddit Product

    SnooTacks
    I apologize for not knowing this but is this Program Manager vs Technical Program Manager, or Product Manager vs Technical Product Manager?
    Dec 27, 2021 21
    • Apple
      NIoR10

      Go to company page Apple

      NIoR10
      You barely speak English so I am not inclined to spend significant time translating your crazy uncle nonsense. Feel free to ask on here about the difference between PM-T and PM at amazon.
      Jan 16
    • Walmart
      missy89

      Go to company page Walmart

      missy89
      @apple dude - okay 1860s uncle ji.. this is called sms lingo .. get used to new age sms lingo uncle Ji..

      Apple IT is full of nasty old fashioned anti feminist desi uncle’s like u ——who are so biased against women n teams full of 99 percent desis only that too from 1 or 2 regions …

      hardly any diversity in tech there…only majorly uncle types desis there … glad I left it n moved away from tech …happy to work in diverse teams now ..

      No surprise that U too are 1840s Uncle type - go learn new age sms lingo n don’t take out your frustration on women …
      Jan 17
  • Amazon
    bvbn17

    Go to company page Amazon

    bvbn17
    PM-T and Manager PM bands are almost similar, however the gap significantly expands as you move to L7. Take the T anyday.
    Dec 22, 2021 0
  • Amazon
    Ata23

    Go to company page Amazon

    Ata23
    Can you please spell out all these acronyms for the rest of us?
    Dec 27, 2021 3
    • PM = Product Manager (Non tech)
      PM-T = Product Manager Tech
      PM-TES = Product Manager Tech External Services
      Comp - PM < PM-T < PM-TES
      L6, L7= individual contributor (IC)
      L7M = Senior Manager (people manager)- can me PM or PM-T
      Going from L7 to L7M means going ftom IC to people manager
      Dec 27, 2021
    • Amazon
      MiiR

      Go to company page Amazon

      MiiR
      There is one more. PMT-ES at AWS which is for external services PMT. Pmt~es has a higher band than PMT at AWS.
      Dec 28, 2021
  • Meta
    TomBrady!

    Go to company page Meta

    TomBrady!
    Unrelated to your question but I wanted to share that it seems that Amazon really screws their PMs on pay compared to Meta. I used to be a L6 Amazon PM (non T), and was at the bottom of band 200k (recently promoted). I moved to meta as a L5 (Amazon L6 equivalent) for >305k, with stacking refreshers each year that’ll put me at 380 by year 4. I’ve heard of meta L5 offers going to 375-400 with competing offers. Meta L6 is 4-550k. This is all without any sort of technical assessment. Before I joined meta I was trying to get converted to PMT and it was definitely not a simple process. It amazed me that meta pays their PMs so well without requiring technical assessments and all that. Amazon definitely makes their PMs jump through more hoops.
    Dec 27, 2021 8
    • Meta
      TomBrady!

      Go to company page Meta

      TomBrady!
      ANT- is your 320k including appreciation? Last I heard, max for L6 non tech PM was 275/285. Also even though my offer was 305, there’s people who get offers for way more (see my earlier response). I didn’t get that high because I didn’t have competing offers. My point isn’t that I could get paid more by moving to meta after my Amazon promo. It’s that even for regular non-recent promo PMs at Amazon, meta likely pays more.

      Salesforce - I haven’t been at meta long enough to accurately gauge the wlb but my observations has been that it’s similar to Amazon. I wouldn’t say people are having to kill themselves for the extra tc.
      Dec 27, 2021
    • New
      ANTW77

      New

      ANTW77
      No, it does not include stock appreciation - that's my year 1 salary with 5% of that being stock, the rest being base and sign on. Not sure when you left, but I believe they increased the band sizes at some point earlier this year.
      I agree that Meta pays more on average - I wouldn't say it's a huge difference - certainly wouldn't say you get screwed, but Amazon has become more competitive with TC. I think in your situation it was always going to make more sense to move to another company once you got promoted to L6. The difference between bottom (at Amazon) to mid band (at another company) alone is enough to justify moving to a company of comparable pay.
      Dec 27, 2021