Facebook PERM issues

Jun 2, 2021 89 Comments

I'm affected by the PERM processing delays for Facebook, and it's putting all personal plans at risk. Not to mention potentially forcing me to change jobs, in the middle of longer term projects that I've worked on for over a year. This is highly unsettling.

I want to understand the situation a bit more. Most of the teams I've worked on have been, by an overwhelming majority, comprised of immigrants. My first question is -- what effect does this have on Facebook? Eventually people will start leaving, and new hires will refuse to join (I hope new hires are already cautious with their offers). Does this not provide a large enough monetary incentive for the company to attempt and solve this problem by settling?

On the other side, it's really hard for me to believe that the lawsuit itself didn't have ill intent on the other end of some misplaced political favor. What motivates the DOJ to refuse to accept Facebook PERMs even though most employment based immigrants follow a similar procedure? Rather than address the procedure, it seems they are choosing to just pick on Facebook. Unlike previous lawsuits against Facebook, I can't imagine any subset of the American population appeased by this situation. Such hostile situations are created for immigrant workers precisely because of this nonsense from the responsible government bodies, not because Facebook manipulates the system to boost their retention. So what are the incentives here?

#workvisa #rfe #h1b #greencard #immigration #perm

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TOP 89 Comments
  • Box
    23lnrkjw

    Go to company page Box

    23lnrkjw
    Major part of this whole issue was Facebook was using very generic PERM applications. Yes you cannot make up a tailor made very restrictive position just for the candidate but you need to find the right balance. Pretty much all of FB's SWE applications were generic "some 2yr software dev exp needed" for ads and this attracted plenty of applications from US Citizens but none or most of them were declined just so they can proceed with PERM filing which raised red flags which led authorities to investigate and sue FB.
    Jun 2, 2021 4
    • OP
      Yeah, I guess it's possible I'm just having a hard time coming to accept what you're saying. And hoping that there is some sensible conclusion / information for this whole thing.

      Shit.
      Jun 2, 2021
    • This is plain stupid on FB's lawyers part. Generic ads?! Really ? The lawyers were lazy then in that case...
      Check investment banks' PERMS in my NY area.. just from the ad I can make out that this it is for PERM... and I don't bother to apply... Citibank, wells Fargo are the recent ones I have seen with PERM type wordings... It makes it easy to reject the resumes. And nobody can counter it based on wordings in the ads
      Jun 2, 2021
  • Google
    Ǝ⅃ӘOOӘ

    Go to company page Google

    Ǝ⅃ӘOOӘ
    FB has more H1b percentage wise than other big tech. So it’s no question that DOJ would pick FB.
    Jun 2, 2021 3
  • Twitter
    lrOY74

    Go to company page Twitter

    lrOY74
    I am currently interviewing with FB.
    I have more than 2 years left on my H1B.
    If my understanding is correct, FB will file for my perm and the application will be stuck indefinitely.
    Then in 2 years I will need to get another H1B, and if I don't get picked in the lottery this will then end my US career?
    I don't mind getting my perm later, I am worried that I will lose everything.
    Is this scenario likely or am I overthinking it?
    Jun 6, 2021 13
    • Twitter
      lrOY74

      Go to company page Twitter

      lrOY74
      Trying to understand how joining FB might play out for me.
      I am on my first H1B, with more than 2 years still left on it. Prior to H1B I was on another visa type. ROW.

      What happens if the situation with perm isn't resolved soon-ish?
      Let's say I join, apply for perm and it gets stuck for years. Will I at least be able to get to the stage where I can transfer my perm application to another employer in a couple of years, or will this be a totally lost time, or can it be even worse?
      Jun 7, 2021
    • Lost time. You can’t transfer non-approved PERM
      Jun 10, 2021
  • Motion to dismiss denied again on June 2. Two options: Facebook settles with DOJ or goes to trial. If FB goes to trial zero chance it will win the case.
    Jun 9, 2021 14
    • It makes sense. Because now FB says those PERMs were valid, and DOL approved those PERMs. This is enough to make DOL to stop approving. If FB sue DOL, FB will argue DOL doesn’t always handling PERM properly hence delay for FB. This will mean FB agrees those approved PERMs weren’t approved properly.
      So, until there’s verdict in trial DOL won’t accept any FB PERM to support FB’s defense. Because, if they do they will be proving FB’s point.
      Facebook might be banned for applying perms in future.
      Jun 10, 2021
    • Google
      CeAN47

      Go to company page Google

      CeAN47
      This sounds really bad. But it's just our speculation at the moment. I really hope Facebook or some lawyer representatives could clarity the current situation.
      Jun 10, 2021
  • Naughty Dog
    SXEh12

    Naughty Dog

    SXEh12
    You can't imagine Americans, who were denied jobs that FB was supposed to advertise to them being appeased? Or Americans, who thought it's illegal to do this shit being appeased? Or Americans, who generally support law and order being appeased?

    It's quite clear why the FB had been chosen as an example. If it's been some Indian body shop then everyone would think that they are fine, being a rich American company with former government officials sitting on the board and being employed on sinecures, and its own lobbyists etc. When it's the FB that gets a book thrown at it then even Google or Amazon will think twice before trying to pull off the same tricks and smaller shops will be scared straight.
    Jun 5, 2021 6
    • Sony
      ps-janitor

      Go to company page Sony

      ps-janitor
      I mean if qualified US citizens want to apply to be interviewed they can apply online like everyone else right? I don’t see any discrimination here.
      The positions posted on the newspapers are for PERM. Which sufficed DOL requirements.
      Jun 6, 2021
    • Naughty Dog
      SXEh12

      Naughty Dog

      SXEh12
      Sony, the positions posted on the newspapers for PERM also did not take online applications, so the qualified US citizens (or anybody else for that matter) could not apply online.

      I am not a lawyer but from what I read in the regulations, the DOL requirements are not exhaustive, they are just setting the lowest bar.

      If you already hire for other jobs with online advertisement and applications then having paper-only PERM is going to be a violation. That requirement is for somebody who normally hires only by reference and accepts apps only face-to-face, for example.
      Jun 6, 2021