Should Eng Leaders at least be from Science

Netflix / Eng
9671

Go to company page Netflix Eng

9671
Apr 27, 2021 44 Comments

At Netflix (and other Eng companies), more and more leaders are being hired with no engineering or science background and worked at tier-3 (or below) places. They are being given the responsibility to make engineering decisions. That doesn't sound like the right step for the long-term benefit of the industry and business.

If it is all about communication and writing skills - folks with engineering and science backgrounds are at a disadvantage as folks with Art, English, Political Science major are obviously going to be better in those skills. Many people in science are also introverts and are at a huge disadvantage.

My question is the following:
If a science background is not even required and we value people's skill over an analytical/scientific mindset, why don't we hire managers from Starbucks (or similar) places at a meager cost? Netflix pays close a mil to these managers who have no science/eng background, went to unknown schools and worked at no-tier companies.

The VP of product at Netflix has political science background. May be that is why he was able to survive so long with right political knowledge.

What does the community think?

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TOP 44 Comments
  • eBay
    JdUW78

    Go to company page eBay

    JdUW78
    Sounds pretty elitist of you. Good talent can come from any company and many different backgrounds. Good tech people often make very poor leaders. A good leader understands where their experience might be lacking and relies on people smarter than they are to make deeply technical decisions.
    Apr 27, 2021 14
    • Oracle
      heaildld

      Go to company page Oracle

      heaildld
      I support leaders being from science but feel that an industrial engineering major would not provide any more advantage than an arts major except for process management which can be built. My current boss is from the arts but he is deeply technical on flink, kafka and stuff and delegates all technical decisions to his team leads. In the end, managers should not have egos
      Apr 27, 2021
    • RBC / Eng
      BigNIntern

      Go to company page RBC Eng

      BigNIntern
      Sundar studied metallurgy, whatever that is, and his background is in consulting. I agree with Oracle that he didn't have a notable tech background before joining Google as a PM.
      Apr 28, 2021
  • Amazon
    crnke6(kg3

    Go to company page Amazon

    crnke6(kg3
    I personally have a hard time respecting my non-tech leaders. I am happy to explain things but 99% of the time it comes down to me making the actual decision and they taking the credit/big money.
    Apr 27, 2021 5
    • Amazon
      crnke6(kg3

      Go to company page Amazon

      crnke6(kg3
      They can choose where to invest but again, I am taking those shots (my experience with 7yoe reporting to a non-tech director). I am sure there are great non-tech leaders out there I just got unlucky
      Apr 27, 2021
    • eBay
      JdUW78

      Go to company page eBay

      JdUW78
      We’re not talking about front line managers here. We’re talking about leadership roles, like Sr Dir, VP, etc.

      If you don’t respect someone based on your perception of their background, and not on their actual merits or performance, then who’s the real idiot?
      Apr 27, 2021
  • New
    XYdc85

    New

    XYdc85
    I wrestle with this question a lot and I can see both sides to it. I do not have a CS background and can barely write a line of code. I didn't even have a college degree until 15 years after my first semester because I had enough units laying around. But somehow I continually outperform everywhere I go and now skirt 7-figures annual TC as an engineering leader. My strong skills were never about writing code, pairing, or any sort of CS mentorship. Where I provide value is three-fold: the experience that has come from nearly two decades working in tech, a natural, proven ability to see how decisions we make today have long-term impact, and a deep, personal investment into the human side of my team. It's these factors that has allowed me to succeed.

    I make it very clear with my team as well as in interviews that you don't want me anywhere near your code - yet in the regular anonymous employee surveys, I rank among the highest in the company with almost 100% scores for every manager category.

    The problem I have seen is that there are incredibly talented SWE's who are shit managers. For me, I'm a shit programmer who invests in my team to make them incredibly talented. Success is in the results of our project work and I'll brag for a minute and say we do some amazing shit. Always pushing the bleeding edge which has led to speaking sessions at conferences, cross-industry contributions to our open source projects, and overall a near perfect retention for my team. Just don't expect to find me behind the podium - I'll be there in the front row cheering you on and making sure you get all the credit.
    Apr 27, 2021 2
  • Affirm
    66rfvbj

    Go to company page Affirm

    66rfvbj
    Are you talking about engineering management or management generally? Degrees don't really matter at all. Tier of company also doesn't really matter. The best engineer I've ever worked with went to a no-tier foreign college. Same for the best PM. The worst PM I've worked with had a tier 1 MBA, and the worst engineer I've ever worked with had an MS in CS from an ivy. 2nd worst was a Facebook/Google/Square alum.

    If someone has work experience that shows that they can do the role or can otherwise make a case that they can do the work that's a much stronger signal.

    If you want to be a coder and not develop communication skills, that's fine, but your career growth will definitely stall out. Soft skills become more and more important as your career progresses.
    Apr 27, 2021 3
    • New / Eng
      haalands

      New Eng

      haalands
      There's plenty of engineers leading teams in other domains. Just look at half of McKinsey or Goldman for example.
      Apr 28, 2021
    • Affirm
      66rfvbj

      Go to company page Affirm

      66rfvbj
      Because software engineering is a glorified trade that can be learned through apprenticeship. A CS degree doesn't guarantee that you can cut it as a SWE. Having experience as a SWE generally means you can do SWE work.
      Apr 28, 2021
  • Management Consulting Firm / Product
    R2Deceased

    Management Consulting Firm Product

    PRE
    Centene
    R2Deceased
    I can tell you that being a leader and being an SE are two totally different careers. Business and technology decisions are very different. You need a different skill set to do each.

    I have seen some of the most tech savvy leaders crash and burn because they were promoted up to their level of leadership and bureaucratic incompetency (Peter principle), and I have seen non tech leaders damn near rescue an org from collapse.

    On no planet should tech skills (that won’t be used anyway) be a prerequisite for a leadership role, unless it’s a startup and they’re also writing code. GTFOH with this naive (or god complex/ego?) bs.
    Apr 27, 2021 3
    • Management Consulting Firm / Product
      R2Deceased

      Management Consulting Firm Product

      PRE
      Centene
      R2Deceased
      I’ve done that. :). And I made those decisions. There’s this really cool concept called collaboration and learning. You should check it out.
      Apr 27, 2021
    • Netflix / Eng
      9671

      Go to company page Netflix Eng

      9671
      OP
      lol, that's the beauty of anonymous forum - anyone can claim anything, like you can claim that you invented and lead S3 in your previous role. Crazy!
      Apr 27, 2021