Why is Apple SWE behind Facebook and Google in terms of quality?

Apple
mklop

Go to company page Apple

mklop
Aug 11, 2021 30 Comments

I have only ever worked at Apple (3 yoe after PhD in non-cs field) and do not have an informed perspective of the SWE industry in general. I see a lot of “tier” polls where Apple SWE is rated consistently lower than Facebook and google. I am curious to hear why this is the case (notwithstanding quality of hired candidates) and if jumping ship to google (not going to FB unless culture improves there) makes sense for me.

Additionally, I am also interested in understanding what Apple SWE does better and what I will miss if I leave.

Tc: 320k

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TOP 30 Comments
  • New
    🇹🇼‎🥇

    New

    🇹🇼‎🥇
    Apple is a hardware company, not software.

    This introduces a culture of secrecy, even in software teams. Secrecy is common in the hardware industry.

    As a result, teams constantly reinvent common software tooling and practices. It’s difficult for teams and orgs to collaborate and develop state-of-the-art software methodologies.

    Source: worked at G and Apple
    Aug 11, 2021 2
  • Uber
    karvoka

    Go to company page Uber

    karvoka
    I am an ex Apple! Apple is perceived as behind in software engg because blind thinks that their hiring quality is bad and map general quality of engineers to one org which is filled with consultants and they may not pay well like others. They don’t have fancy Infra teams like other top tier companies and write medium articles nor they contribute back to open source. Some in blind think they are great engineers because they use fancy infra tools developed by great minds in infra. Apart from that, they have some of the best work and most challenging work I have ever seen. They handle internet scale paid customer services and they do a pretty good job. You find lot of matured senior engg with deep domain expertise rather walking around with their college pedigrees and deliver api plumbing work.
    Aug 11, 2021 0
  • Apple is not a software company. Their a hardware first company, it makes all the difference. It's like how FB or Google will attract top SWE talent because they are software companies, they have hardware roles but don't attract top talent or even pay as well for those roles
    Aug 11, 2021 4
  • Apple
    epfj

    Go to company page Apple

    epfj
    I'm going to echo the first comment.
    Personally I have found lot of reinvention of tools. I have worked on building things that I know exists in a different org. It's a shame Apple encourages this.

    Another aspect is disclosure culture. Manager makes you work without giving context which definitely sucks as a developer. You end up doing things you are told to rather than doing things that are right.
    Aug 11, 2021 0
  • Apple
    25dmn

    Go to company page Apple

    25dmn
    No central/common tools are built which adds lots of friction to the development. Once you work at G/Fb/Amazon you'll see the difference in this aspect.
    On the other hand, the WLB is pretty good at Apple (at least AI/ML) in comparison to those 3.
    From my experience at Fb, Amazon and Apple, I can say that as a swe I have much more freedom at Apple (again read AI/ML) than those two.
    Aug 11, 2021 0