what's happening to s386

Jan 10 142 Comments

Any update on bill s386? I haven't seen any news about it, regardless of what I saw from immigration voice's post. Why Mike Lee has not yet brought up another UC after Senator Dick's amendment?

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TOP 142 Comments
  • New WGus28
    This bill is not that important for Congress. Impeachment drama. It's election year. If you were a candidate and saw voters claiming this is an India bill that will reward bodyshoppers and floods market with 800K eads, would you back it? I know my previous statement leaves out the Indian fang employees but you get the idea. rOW and anti immigrant groups are also lobbying against it.
    Jan 10 23
    • Google / Eng hatepushor
      F1 opt aren't eligible for i140 EAD- that is the condition of EAD. Again more inaccuracies. 🤷🏽‍♂️
      6d
    • New WGus28
      Oh I got that wrong. I am just not able to understand how giving job mobility to h1b workers is a good thing since they can now compete with local workers
      6d
    • Google / Eng hatepushor
      It is good because it reduces wage depression.

      So here is an example: a decade ago , several Bay area companies were sued by DoJ. This is documented here : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation

      But the core of the issue is this: many Bay area companies decided to not cold call (it was okay if the folks applied themselves) each other employees. This was settled by these companies and as a result, wages went up by 10% immediately for some companies and the pay rises were significant year after year, until market parity was reached.

      Notice that what this does is it doesn't add new friction to labor mobility, but it reduces those who aren't actively looking for a job.

      A h1 visa, on the other ✋, adds severe friction to job change. You have to get ucsis to approve the new job is related and is speciality.

      What this means is people on backlog change jobs less and are cheaper and thus are always chosen when there is a local worker with similar skill and experience. This is unfair to the higher mobile worker. The only person who comes out winning in this proposition is companies, who get cheap labor.

      When this is removed, wages go up as an American worker has a fair chance, as the h1 workers are no more cheaper.

      Having a permanent lower mobile workers does no good to the higher mobile worker ever. This is how labor mobility works.
      It is counter intuitive, but true as well. 🤷🏽‍♂️

      If these folks getting EAD never worked in US, it is true of everything you say, but these workers are already gainfully employed by the system. That is the critical piece that also makes country caps do the exact opposite of what it was intended to do.
      6d
    • New WGus28
      What if i140 ead guy does not switch job? You are assuming all i140 ead guys are competitive faangers
      6d
    • Microsoft YdRa35
      @Google, where's the data to back up the wage trend after the lawsuit? I find it difficult to believe that wages actually increased by 10% as the economy was crashing.
      5d
  • Oracle Inb97$@#
    Not really, he insists that he wants smart people to stay back and I completely agree with him. However he also says he does not like cheap labor (looking at you ICC) and is evidenced by his policies that have impacted ICC the most.
    7d 31
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      I'm a Canadian citizen and resident. And have no plans of moving to a country while complaining like I'm owed something. But maybe I should, and get my GC in a year just out of spite since Indians really love attacking RoW. Then I'll leave US. It'll be fun.
      6d
    • Google / Eng hatepushor
      @salesforce: I am not attacking row. My argument is for equality and it doesn't matter it is RoW who wants to retain privilege or someone else.
      6d
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      This bill isn't about equality, it's about India backlog, that is all there is. If you had no stake in this, believe me you wouldn't give a rats a$$ about equality. Because there are a billion other inequalities that you've never heard of and don't care about.
      6d
    • New WGus28
      Google, on deeper thought the reason row abuse goes unnoticed because those are jobs locals don't want to do whereas icc get contracts from big companies to replace us workers which is why some us tech organizations complain as well about s386 along with opposers.
      6d
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      The lower wages in RoW isn't abuse, EB3 category is a broad category including unskilled / other workers. If it's not legit, USCIS staff should be fired since it's not like this information went under the radar in the applications.
      5d
  • Google WzGj5
    he.. he.. isn't any country other than US is RoW for Americans? Why does RoW wants to treat birth country as skill 😂
    7d 23
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      It's not a spin. It's what it is. And EB literally means employee based. It is to bring people in for jobs, there is no requirement for high skills. Different level of EB just allocated space to different levels of jobs. There is no rule that says lower skilled people should be passed up for "higher skilled" professions. Indians just can't accept that and discriminate against lower skilled people and conveniently classifying all RoW as low skilled. Low pay isn't the same as low skill. Only idiots think that way. A farm worker might get less pay, but your precious high skills might get you killed driving a tractor. You idiots arguing RoW low wages getting GC before you do obviously discriminate against professions.

      US CAN decline people with lesser skilled jobs, but that isn't the point of EB GC. Indians just pretend that's what it is for.

      Face it, this bill is about you getting what you want, not what is fair.
      4d
    • New perm
      This bill was never about fairness. Of India met their quota they would never complain. To each their own
      4d
    • Google y~5-XtJ
      Yeah, equality feels like oppression for the privileged RoW who used get GC without any scrutinization.
      4d
    • New perm
      ROW foes through equal scrunity. What row did not go through was the wait time.
      4d
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      Google, your pathetic self victimization is really cringing. What makes you think RoW has less scrutiny? You talk about equality and discrimination and yet make wild accusations that RoW applicants getting their applications admitted with no scrutiny all because you hate RoW.
      4d
  • Oracle Inb97$@#
    Why do ICC (American companies ) insist only on hiring Indians?
    7d 6
    • Google y~5-XtJ
      Why do RoW insist only on easy CoB green card give away (without any scrutinization) instead of competing for skilled jobs?
      4d
    • Oracle Inb97$@#
      What a stupid response!!

      Did ROW send you a memo stating their position that they “insist” on anything ? Why don’t you share it with everybody here ? Name a skilled job where you don’t find ROW folks in?
      4d
    • Google y~5-XtJ
      So, you don't have problem waiting in single line. Right? Please don't start singing diversity songs...
      4d
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      Google, do you ever have an intelligent response or do you repeat the same crap over and over again? He literally said nothing about diversity. Did your mom drop you as a baby?
      4d
    • Oracle Inb97$@#
      Yes his response got 3 likes, tells you about the demographics of blind.
      3d
  • Salesforce IJqK83
    I mentored a peer who happens to be Indian born and he is in the US. He has a master's degree and can't write half decent code or even read code. He has zero passion for the work he does. One time, he took credit for another person (who was on vacation), I was suspicious because of all the tasks I assigned him, he just magically was able to figure out exactly what to do. I myself am in Canada so it's hard for me to verify and monitor. I later confirmed that it was the vacay guy who sent him the code before vacation for my mentee to submit. This mentee eventually got promoted twice despite me being against it. His technical abilities are masked by his meeting set up and emailing abilities. He's peaking out his cheating methods so now he is looking to become a manager.

    I now have another mentee who is also Indian born but based in Canada. This guy only has a bachelor's degree. This mentee makes the first mentee look like a pile of trash. Performs significantly better, passionate about the work he is working on. This guy would destroy the first guy in a merit based system.

    The precious stats about Indians with degrees and their "high skills" is a joke. Sure this is a sample size of two. But you have to wonder how that pile of trash got into the US in the first place.

    Just because you are in the US working for some big company doesn't make you "high skilled". Calling this bill "fairness for high skilled" is a farce.
    3d 16
    • Amazon / Eng ?!?*
      Generalizing based on a single data point. Have you ever heard of outlier? If you want to generalize, then say how common is this occurrence in percentile scale. No interview process is perfect, all companies have trash hires who slip though the cracks, but generalizing based on outlier is just dumb.
      2d
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      I'm Canadian born Chinese... and no, I'm not RoW, I work in Canada. Unfortunately, it's difficult for me to find an example of bad performer around me that's not Chinese or Indian. Probably because this industry is littered with them and it's easier for me to pick one from a much larger group than a smaller group. AM I saying all Chinese and all Indians are bad? No. Am I saying all RoW are rockstars? No.Self victimizing trash will probably read it that way. Indians are the ones slamming all RoW as unskilled. Yah I understand there are rockstars in each nationality. But this bill lumps trashes and rockstars together and calls them both "high skills", then S386 supporters calls that "equality"... they turn around to go on social media and talk about how RoW is paid lower therefore is less skilled. What a dumb joke, getting a real laugh here.

      Amazon. At no point did I say all Indian backloggers are piles of trash. I'm saying the backloggers include piles of trash like this, and this bill doesn't do "equality" any justice. I didn't generalize anything. I'm pointing out a fact. Oh trust me, he isn't an outlier. There are serious dumb backloggers in my company that's cheated their way to senior roles... this one example is just something I have full clarity on. You call this generalizing when all backloggers is just yap about RoW being paid less and unskilled.

      Linkedin, it's not idealistic, it's the reality. Sure people tend to view themselves and different tiers based on their wage, it affects how people view themselves in the social world. But that doesn't represent skill. It's what they perceive as skill. I called out Europe and US not for the reason for GC, but for the salary comparison as skill. What about the comparison between Seattle and San Fran? That's exactly why salary is a dumb measure. That's all backloggers yap about, RoW wages. US needs people for different jobs. Some jobs are selfless and make a lot less money, but US still needs people like them. Teachers are great examples. Not everyone can be teachers, it's not an easy job, it's paid sh1t, but there's still a need for them. Guess who's responsible for your kids when you drop them off somewhere? Is a surplus of doctors and shortage of teachers better for the US? Hell to the no. That's what backloggers want when they make these junk wage comparisons.
      2d
    • Microsoft YdRa35
      @Amazon, Salesforce's point of a merit-based system is to always ensure there are no outliers. Percentiles of trash hires slipping through the cracks will change over time. This bill proposes a system that will never ever account for that. Merit-based system will always put trash hires at the back of the priority.
      2d
    • Uber sleepy2
      There are better bills than this. However there are no better bills with so much support in Senate and House.
      2d
    • LinkedIn mohaha
      Of course indians think this is a good bill, and only indians. LMAO
      9h
  • Google Mhol27
    Legend has it in 2120 indians in the consulting sweatshop are still waiting for the pass of S386(2019)
    Jan 10 1
    • Uber sleepy2
      They are now opposing it.
      3d
  • Amazon / Other MZ4cz
    To the ggl guy who keeps broadcasting the ridiculous idea of “competing for high skill jobs” in every s386 thread:

    Competition requires something to compete on, such that some people score higher and some lower, such that some people win and some lose.

    An example of competition is a merit points system, where people compete for who scores more points. An example of competition is a sprint, where people compete for who does it in less time.

    More important, a competition must be for the better. There are competitions for who is stronger, there are no competitions for who is a bigger wimp. We want to compete for who gets bigger salary offer, we don’t want to compete for who agrees to work for less (if you do, you are welcome to do it without us. In India.)

    A single line does not make people compete for anything. It is the opposite of competition, it makes people who wouldn’t score anything for shit receive the same prize as the best of the best. And even if it did put consultants against everyone else, it still would not be a competition, it would be a race to the bottom, to lowest salary and skill.
    3d 8
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      Google, you're like a broken record with that CoB skill crap. Once again, skill isn't at all being asked by EB GC. The requirements for a job and yoe doesn't even begin to relate to skill. Even EB1 is a joke when unskilled developers simply turn to management. Indians are the only people who seem to think that skills should be prioritized. Just a bunch of profession discriminating scumbags.

      Are you illiterate, Oracle already pointed out the 50:50 is good but not good enough. Especially the fact that it's unlikely that it will be enforced. Maybe pick up English skills?
      3d
    • Google dw_"Z5
      Salesforce, you are saying skills should not be prioritized, so what should be prioritized? CoB? What are the loopholes in H1?
      3d
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      Again with the CoB, no one is saying that except your self victimizing bullshit.

      I'm not saying that skills "should not be prioritized". That's what it is. They create certain allocations for people at different skill levels. The rule doesn't dictate that all lower skill jobs allocations must be given to higher skilled ones. There's no requirement for US to ONLY import high skilled individual. Indians are the ones arguing that high skilled should be prioritized.

      I honestly don't know how you get your bullet points or take notes because did I talk about H1 loopholes? I didn't. Pick up some communication skills while you are at it.

      At the end of the day, this bill doesn't solve the backlog problem. There's a supply and demand. And total demand is significantly greater than the supply. All this bill does is reallocate green cards within the demand. Backlog will continue, in fact if this bill passes, backlog (as a whole) will be worse. If you look at backlog as a whole, India's the main contributor due to massive demand. Country cap didn't create the backlog... demand did. And high demand doesn't equal high skill or high talent. This bill simply opens the gate for high demand and you're sitting there arguing about prioritizing skills. What a joke.

      But of course, Indians on the queue doesn't give a 5hit about the future generations. Indians don't care about the overall backlog, they only care about India's current backlog. They only care that they get their GC. The right solution is increase total GC count to compensate for the total demand. But Indians know a total relief bill will never pass so they choose to tackle the small fish and attack country cap like it was the source of the problem... all so they can get what they want in the short term.

      If this bill passes. Indians will start rallying for another bill attacking professions and different wage groups, which you guys already seem to be doing constantly.
      3d
    • Salesforce IJqK83
      And honestly REAL CoB discrimination would be:
      Indian people can get only 2% GC allocation instead of the equally balanced 7%. THAT would be discrimination. Current system just gives the same amount to each country.

      So stop with the CoB discrimination bull crap.
      3d
    • Oracle Inb97$@#
      Furthermore India does not get just 7% they actually get closer to 20% of gc every year because of the spillovers.
      3d
  • Uber / Eng jojorabbit
    Senate’s kinda busy right now. It probably won’t pass but even if it does the damage is already done.
    Uber is one of many companies focusing on India and S America for growth in tech talent. Indian market is growing and the tech startup scene there is looking up.
    The drain is slowly but surely reversing
    Jan 10 9
    • New WGus28
      That is good. When us sees talent leaving they will be forced to change immigration system
      7d
    • Amazon / R&D ATTE75
      India campuses are mostly for india-based operations. Retail
      6d
    • Amazon / Eng ?!?*
      Nope not true. There is a big presence of Amazon worldwide platform teams(core ml platform team for retail WW is in india). Also in 2017 they moved few AWS DB teams to india, and now they are on hiring spree, along with setting up teams for other aws products.

      At least in my org, we see hiring in seattle is difficult. My sister team in India is growing at much faster pace due to easy access to talent.
      6d
    • Microsoft Hrgf72
      Why offices in India is damage? This is a ludicrous statement. Do you really feel like it's not enough smart people in the US (Silicon valley, Seattle, etc.)? Let the other countries develop a bit and bring at least a little bit of balance in the world, so the major US tech hubs slow down suffering of crazy bubbles and roller-coaster financial and housing markets.
      6d
    • Uber sleepy2
      ^ Damage to US jobs for sure.
      3d
  • Facebook public2
    Haha is this becoming a joke or blind meme or something? If so I preferred the Albertsons meme.
    Jan 10 3
    • Hopefully it won't pass
      Jan 10
    • Facebook public2
      There's nothing to pass or not pass. This only exists on blind now
      Jan 10
    • New WGus28
      IV posted about asking senators to support and saw something about UC. Looks like Lee will try to get it past hearing.
      5d
  • Google AxCj26
    https://t.co/rdhmz5Ojuo?amp=1 (Trump on immigration policy) - is this good news for s386?
    7d 1
    • New WGus28
      Google, it is probably wise not to rely on s386 passing.
      7d

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