Defense SWE vs Non-Profit APM

Aug 23, 2021 10 Comments

Hello Blind,

Wanted your opinions on which of these two offers I should take. Have to decide by tomorrow.

For context, I currently work in a level 1 systems engineering role. I have been trying to break into a product role for the last 4 months, and this non-profit is the only company that even gave me an interview. I believe my skillsets and interests would allow me to thrive in a product role more than in a software role in the long run. However, this software offer came out of nowhere, and the compensation is significantly better in a cheaper area. So now I'm confused about what career path I should go down.

The main concern for not taking the non-profit is salary, and it is not a very tech-focused company. The gamble I would be taking is that this product role will be worth it in the long run by propelling my product career. I keep hearing that having a PM title and experience is the most important thing in passing the resume screen, and more important than the specific industry I'm in. The goal for both the swe or product role would be to eventually pivot into a tech company for that respective role.

Large Defense Contractor:
- Software Engineer
- Level 3 (usually 3-5 yoe)
- 125k base
- ~135k TC
- MCOL Area
- Would be working on C++ embedded systems
- I'm currently in a top 25 grad CS program. This company would continue to pay for my grad school (but idk if I would even stay long enough for them to cover the whole degree. Still have about 3 years left if I continue part-time).
- The concern is that having two defense contractor companies on my resume might pigeonhole me in the industry and make it even harder to move into a tech company later

Non-Profit:
- Associate Product Manager (APM)
- 65k base
- ~70k TC
- HCOL Area (NYC)
- Opportunity for travel
- More fun area to live in
- Would be more fulfilled about what I work on
- A senior PM would directly mentor me to grow into a complete PM
- They have one main client-facing product that I would be working on
- Like many of you, I want to start something of my own one day and I think the experiences and network I'll gain here may benefit me down the road
- A concern is if non-profits have any negative connotations in tech

YOE: 2

#nonprofit #defense #productmangement #software #engineering

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  • Don't stress about the resume. Just make sure to keep yourself sharp (being in school should help). I started out in aerospace as did many coworkers and many of us are working in tech today.
    Aug 23, 2021 1
  • Take the role you want to do in the long term. Both gigs aren't great by the sounds of it and should be a ~2 year stepping stone to greater things
    Aug 23, 2021 1
  • I made the jump from defense resently after 3 years out of college. Of you are fairly good it's usually pretty easy to move inside those companies. Take it, and immediately work on changing to a PM role.

    Even if you don't get a PM role tho, as soon as you get your TS clearance you will be primed to hit up Microsoft Azure and AWS. And once you are in you are in. At least at MS you can change immediately to a non gov team.
    Aug 23, 2021 2
    • OP
      Hey, thanks for laying out a great path to follow! Unfortunately, within the defense firm, there doesn't exist a true PM role. And other similar Product Lead types of roles usually require many more years of experience than I currently have.

      Any tips to get the TS clearance? I currently only have a secret level clearance, and the new position would also only require secret.
      Aug 23, 2021
    • Sorry I don't know much about PMs or what they do. I was thinking IP Lead when I wrote that. Amd that is easy to get on small projects some times.

      As for getting a TS, the only way is to wok on something that requires it.
      Aug 23, 2021
  • Man, thatโ€™s a pretty tough decision. If PM is really what you want Iโ€™d say go for it. Could you maybe use the LM offer as leverage for negotiating the APM role?

    I get the negative connotation on defense. Iโ€™m in the same boat (looking to transition to a top tech company) but I donโ€™t think it is bad for a few years. I think itโ€™s only actually bad if youโ€™re in defense 7-10+ years and then looking to switch.
    Aug 23, 2021 2
    • OP
      Hey, great to see another current defense guy chime in! I actually did negotiate the APM offer, and 65K base is what it became after a small bump.

      Yeah, I agree with you that 1 or 2 more years of defense (for a total of 3-4 years) shouldn't hold me back too much. Good luck with your own job search!
      Aug 23, 2021
    • Crap man, if thatโ€™s the case I would highly consider the LM offer then. 70k in NYC is like poverty levels (Atleast to people on Blind), your salary would be pretty much double at LM!

      Best of luck on the decision!
      Aug 24, 2021