should I push for E6, L6 ?

Intel
DrBelle

Go to company page Intel

DrBelle
Feb 13 42 Comments

Hello,

Google and Meta (Facebook) are both about to interview me for E5 and L6. I have a PhD with 7 years industry experience (after PhD - 4 of them in Electrical Eng, 3 of them in Software). Meta did a "levelling" call and ended up not giving the E6 chance to me.. I have no idea why, I think they have a bios towards minorities, culturally how we speak may not be as loud or sound super confident but I am. Maybe cos I am not a white American man?

Should I push for E6 and L6 based on my YOE or just go ahead and interview for E5 and L5? Of course in a positive light, not mentioning about diversity... I know it will be harder to get level up promo after I join rather than before I join, just like corporate life.. #google #facebook #meta

Update: so many of you helped me with very valuable information with levels in other companies compared to Intel. Thank you for taking the time and respond with such care and good intentions.

comments

Want to comment? LOG IN or SIGN UP
TOP 42 Comments
  • Apple
    CTpT04

    Go to company page Apple

    CTpT04
    They probably noticed that you are not a good fit in leading teams, either by how you described your pervious roles or by answering their questions.
    Feb 13 5
    • Apple
      CTpT04

      Go to company page Apple

      CTpT04
      That's the way they decide and I agree is not 100% accurate.
      Feb 13
    • Don't take it personal, other people got down leveled to e5. You probably didn't give enough signals for e6. What you think is enough leadership for e6 might not be enough for them. The way you're doing things in your current project might not be a fit for meta. Just move on..
      Feb 13
  • New
    Kuph85

    New

    Kuph85
    It’s not racial bias, it’s you. The sooner you stop embracing your victimhood, the sooner you can regain agency and start becoming the best version of yourself.

    Stop giving yourself reasons to think you can’t accomplish something. What you’re doing is called self sabotage.

    If you are really in doubt about racial bias then I suggest you look on LinkedIn to see who works at meta. I see a company made predominantly of foreign-born workers. Even the white people appear to be heavily comprised of 1st gen immigrants from Europe and Russia.
    Feb 13 3
    • New
      Kuph85

      New

      Kuph85
      Also, 46% of the company is Asian. 39% is white.
      Feb 13
    • New
      Kuph85

      New

      Kuph85
      Oh there is definitely bias. The data shows there’s a 1% discrepancy between female representation in leadership vs. in the workforce. If you happen to be female you could very well be in that 1% gap.

      It might be worth mentioning this concern to your recruiter. With this evidence from the data they will surely consider this a very reasonable concern that any well-adjusted person would bring up.
      Feb 13
  • Meta
    zuckzilla

    Go to company page Meta

    zuckzilla
    Phd + 3 years will map to e4 in most cases, e5 max. It has nothing to do with being a minority.
    Feb 13 2
    • Intel
      DrBelle

      Go to company page Intel

      DrBelle
      OP
      Even during Electrical Eng, I did write SW and did light ML. Why discount my 4 years of experience?
      Feb 13
    • Meta
      zuckzilla

      Go to company page Meta

      zuckzilla
      Light SW and ML doesn’t count and most likely it has nothing to do with building big systems at scale. Average e6 hire at Google has 10+ years of Eng experience. And many people with 10+ years still join as e4-e5. It’s lower for Meta but still fairly high.

      The same way many System analysts, engineers at test even QA write some code but it’s still discounted if they decide to switch to SWE.
      Feb 13
  • Amazon
    pippapig

    Go to company page Amazon

    pippapig
    YOE is largely irrelevant for Staff+ roles, it’s all about technical leadership experience and scope. You probably did not demonstrate this level in your system design and behavioral interviews.
    Feb 13 3
    • Amazon
      pippapig

      Go to company page Amazon

      pippapig
      Your original question was “Should I push for E6 and L6 based on my YOE” and that’s a hard no. If you want to push then purely based on scope and tech leadership. F.ex. if you’ve been partnering with a manager of managers working across teams or tech lead for a large team with complex tech then that’s interesting input. Mentoring E5 equivalent engineers is also a good signal.
      Feb 13
    • Intel
      DrBelle

      Go to company page Intel

      DrBelle
      OP
      and.... interesting input results to ???
      Feb 13
  • Meta
    zuckzilla

    Go to company page Meta

    zuckzilla
    After checking levels.fyi I think I under better where your bias is coming from. Intel staff and senior staff levels map to e5 at other companies. So if you are operating at that level, getting e5 is a direct translation and a much better position even if it’s just considered as “senior”, not “staff”. As part of this level you need to create your own scope and scope for other engineers. As part of e6 you create scope for your team and a few other teams.

    What’s your current level at Intel? How many other grade 8/grade 9 engineers you led as part of your biggest project? So we could help you understand where you map to.

    But to answer your question, you should always push wherever is possible. Always aim for the moon.
    Feb 13 2
    • New
      Kuph85

      New

      Kuph85
      You have the patience and empathy of a saint
      Feb 13
    • Intel
      DrBelle

      Go to company page Intel

      DrBelle
      OP
      Thanks for the most sane response which is actually helpful. I am on L8, almost level 9 here. I led some 8 and 9’s. What level this would put me in meta?

      Also too busy with low impact projects here at Intel so I could easily lead more if I wasn't busy with project no one wants to do.. (which is why I want to leave but by all means I didn’t mention this during the interview I mentioned the leadership part)
      Feb 13