One of my peer ICs has taken on some managerial duties. I much prefer asking him for non- technical organizational or customer context rather than my actual manager. I don’t want my real manager to think I’m stupid or disengaged if I miss something important. He has too much power over my employment and career trajectory. I think this dynamic should change. Thoughts? Agree? Tc 260 Edit: Thanks for everyone’s reply. It has been spirited. I think I’ve learned that what I’m actually wishing is for managers to relinquish their power over the careers of their ICs, to perhaps the tech lead. That shows respect to the immense differences between the roles and allows them to work together properly without an undo power imbalance
You want someone to lead/manage you that is lower than you?
No. In the places I’ve worked, PMs lead product direction and Tech Leads lead technical direction. Managers clear political and organizational hurdles for their ICs. I only have a small sample size, but if that is true broadly then I think managerial power over IC career trajectory is misplaced and should he handed off to tech leads and maybe PMs
Yeah you absolutely don't want a PM in charge of your career.
Yea it makes tons of sense. Nothing makes more sense than having to handhold someone through trivial tasks knowing they are a higher level and paid more than me. 🙄 In fact CEOs should be new grads and current CEOs should be at entry level positions. Reverse the pyramid!
To you it makes sense to “handhold someone through trivial tasks” if that person is a higher level? I don’t accept the characterization that I’ve described “handholding through trivial tasks” but if I accept that for a moment: Why would someone high up and paid more need to do that? Surely that job belongs to someone lower level
It’s more that most of actual day to day management is project management and is best done by a professional trained to do that as an IC. The legacy model of promoting good ICs to manage just results in the Peter principle and orgs run by MBAs become exercises in financial engineering that lose sight of the product.
If you are afraid to ask questions without being judged then the environment is not right. Not everyone knows everything. We all ask questions regardless of levels.
A useful comment. Thank you for your input. This might have made me change perspective
Do you think your IC buddy thinks you're stupid or disengaged for asking for help/context?
I don’t think so. But that’s because he’s in a better position to judge my engineering work. He sees my code and participates in code reviews. My manager doesn’t. But it would matter way less if my IC he did think that about me as a result of me asking organizational questions. He has less power over my career.
Promos aren't just about code, in fact code has very little to do with career progression.
Your peer is not your manager! I think you need a couple more hours of sleep a night….
A lot of people think they can do a better job than their manager. Which is probably true in a lot of cases. There’s shitload of bad managers out there that only look out for themselves. I’ve had teams where multiple engineers outranked me and were paid more. However, they had no desire for the manager role. What I’m getting at is someone has to play the role, if that role exists. The best way to stand out and stay on your “career trajectory” is build a good working relationship with your manager and don’t alienate them. Support them when they need it and disagree and provide advice when warranted. It’s a lot better way to build mutual respect than to be constantly obtuse. And that goes both ways.
I think this is a good summary of the dynamic I’m wishing for. It’s a different job with different skill sets where it (should be) possible for ICs to outlevel. I therefore think that a tech lead rather than a manager should decide about promotions, etc
Tech leads are consulted for input regarding promotions on a team in almost all cases. However, there are typically things outside of the purely technical that are used in determining eligibility for promotion. There are both nontechnical eligibility requirements, and political considerations that managers take into account for promotions.
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Mentoring. You are describing mentoring.
I’m describing mentoring by whom? To me mentoring is someone more experienced who helps you with career decisions. I want the opposite in a manager. I want someone available to clear the hurdles between me and doing the job well
The peer you consult is acting as a mentor. And you are finding this useful. A manager can absolutely act as a mentor but the roles need to be somewhat separated. Which can be difficult. It’s hard to talk to a person about technical and growth opportunities, while also managing their outputs and contributions. It’s a lot of work for the manager to do both.