A conflicted life

Apple Veet51
Jan 9, 2018 232 Comments

*Full disclosure*: This post contains some rants, and some introspective thoughts. Now that you've been warned, I'll know to ignore any "stop ranting, whining, b....ing" comments as pure hate. 😀

I'm an immigrant guy, came here about half a decade ago, went thru the exciting/scary/hectic/poor grad school phase, took up a job that gave me all the money and time in the world (compared to grad school) while allowing me to gain useful experience/skills at my own pace, got bored after a couple of years, moved up to a bigger job at a better company, and now feeling a bit helpless/hopeless about my personal life and relationships... 😐

Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely grateful for all my education and the jobs I've held/hold but looking back in retrospect, it's clear that I've focused too narrowly on only one thing at the expense of everything else during these years: my career. Why career? The only acceptable answer that I could come up with: it's a proxy for 💰. Turns out that more money doesn't make one happier, who knew...

I'm quite social and friendly, have an awesome set of friends that I frequently meet and spend time with and don't really have anything to worry about in life.

Except, I don't have a partner and don't think that's about to change anytime soon in the Bay Area. I've watched most of my friends get married over the years and ended up being the odd guy out in a social circle of couples. FOMO? Maybe. It also doesn't help that my immediate family and other relatives are not around, so I'm very dependent on my friends circle here. /rant

Is this experience fairly the norm for immigrant guys or am I somehow in a unique situation? Also, where are all the girls in the Bay Area?!?

I'd gladly take a lower paying job and move if that'd help improve my personal life in a meaningful way. #Maslow

PS: Thanks to everyone who contributed to this very productive discussion, and to those of you who reached out over PM. You people have restored my faith in Blind! Cheers.

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TOP 232 Comments
  • BlackBerry Mandingo🙀
    SFO has got many single women. Rest of the SF Bay is a cock-fest
    Jan 9, 2018 10
    • Intel GPTW
      At least he didn’t say Frisco
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Amazon looking4
      Calm down @Hussle! We all got that!
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Genentech milkshakes
      Living here all my life, I’ve never heard anyone use SFO for SF, since it’s usually for SF airport
      Jan 12, 2018
    • BlackBerry SHA1024🔐!
      @milkshakes:
      And if you don’t know,
      Now you know .....
      Jan 12, 2018
    • Oracle jkroo43n
      He does mean the airport. Bay area outside of SFO is a wasteland.
      Jan 23, 2018
  • Facebook Tufta
    What is preventing you from finding a partner? Is it lack of opportunity to meet people or meeting the wrong people? If we can unpack this a bit perhaps I can share some thoughts to help.
    Jan 9, 2018 12
    • Apple iWork
      This is awesome Tufta. Had a similar but reversed experience that led to the same conclusion. I absolutely did not want to marry someone my culture (immigrant too!) turns out when I started looking around, nobody ever clicked the same way - what I dreamed life would be, how I value things, etc. I don’t have the typical immigrant values but as it turns out, neither did she! 10 years later, I can’t imagine anything else :). But i echo tufta’s suggestion - go to some place where you get to do things you value so the person you meet is also on the same page as oppose to meet ups where the common ground is only superficial status. I didn’t go this route, but another idea is ask your friends’ if their wives have friends. I’ve noticed that friends who have similar values end up marrying people who have similar friends and values. Could be a good place to meet somebody if it isn’t totally awkward (I tried this but it was too damn awkward being set up but it works for some people)
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Facebook Tufta
      Thanks for the support iWork — and really good points you make as well. I went the opposite direction — thought I needed someone in my culture, then totally opposite from my culture, then back again, but culture was always the jumping off point and that was a mistake. We tend to look for people in the same culture because we think that defines us. It does and it doesn’t. People are people first. We have to look at the deeper reasons for why we want certain characteristics and what they mean to us. The match may be in the same culture, but they’re a match on some deeper level if it’s going to work. It takes time to learn to look at people as people and not buckets of characteristics.

      Great point about asking friends’ wives. In my opinion both avenues (interest-based clubs and friends-of-friends-of-friends) are paths that OP should be pursuing simultaneously.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Genentech icqJ06
      Veet, this has been my observation - Americans and Asians don't know how to date. Asians didn't have it in their culture, and Americans didn't have a culture, being a new country, and so they simply followed porn. Not a good way to have meaningful relationships. Europeans are the only ones who had it somewhat figured out.

      So, your best bet at this time is to find a dating coach. Not a matchmaking service. A dating coach who gives advice pretty much what you are asking - where to meet people, what to look for, difference between casual dating and relationship, and even questions like text or call, coffee or dinner etc.

      There are plenty of dating coaches online. Most have a ton of free advice, and you can get personalized advice if you pay for it. Most of them target women for their advice, but you can extrapolate to figure out what women are expecting from you, and what you can reasonably expect from them at the end of dinner (not sex!)

      Don't go for dumb pick up artists and such, but meaningful respectable dating coaches. Hope it will help!
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng QgVw70
      Any dating coach examples?
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Facebook Tufta
      Meh, I don’t think that’s necessarily it. This is a common Bay Area problem. Veet seems communicative, has lots of friends and is self-aware and responsive to feedback, while these dating coaches work with specimens that need a lot more basic presentation help. It seems like it’s more of a numbers and strategy shift versus a coach needed type of situation. But that’s just my read on it. I’d try a different strategy first.
      Jan 9, 2018
  • Salesforce SYQT75
    I don’t know what you guys do and where you go but there are tons of attractive women all over the Bay Area. I’m thinking you’re doing it wrong.
    Jan 9, 2018 11
    • Aon Hewitt qTXq04
      There's plenty of vegans in the bay area, I have a ton of female friends who may be a good match for you!
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Lyft / Product LEEE
      In terms of being picky, it is important to define what you cannot accept as opposed to what you want. What are the auto-fails, and are they true auto-fails? If your list is unreasonable, then that gives you a good place to start.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Cruise Automation / Eng
      I'm dating an immigrant who also happens to be vegan. I'm not a huge fan of his diet but his strengths make up for it in spades so I'm willing to try to overlook that for everything else.
      I actually didn't want to date him at first but eventually he has shown me that he's got a lot to bring to the table and will be there even when the going gets hard.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      That's good to hear! I did find the phrase "have a lot to bring to the table" funny considering that he's vegan. 😀
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Cruise Automation / Eng
      Hahaha yeah. He actually will help me cook meat and makes avocado toast for me so he actually does bring a lot to the table!
      Jan 10, 2018
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Amazon mind vs. _
      The man has a point. I don’t think it’s shitty, just a little jaded.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Juniper / Ops shitposter
      blunt, yes. shitty, no.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Google Imelectric
      Donald is that you?
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Aaaabnn

      Microsoft Eng

      BIO
      Hate coding quizzes but studying hard for better future!
      Aaaabnnmore
      Is this an ex Microsoft guy who was preaching husband can physically punish their wife? Why is this living in US where he should be worried about getting sued all the time? Who are these people clicked on like for this guy? That is really low.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Cruise Automation / Eng
      This is ok if they have a similar cultural background to you - with some, their ethnicity is stronger than their nationality. For others, it's the opposite.
      Jan 10, 2018
  • Google nogifts
    Dude don’t get frustrated over not getting married. This may be a blessing. You don’t want to come back to this thread in 5 years and be like- wtf was I thinking....
    Jan 9, 2018 1
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      I'm not frustrated about not getting married, my friends circle is constantly diminishing due to them getting married, leaving me buddy-less at times. 😀
      Jan 9, 2018
  • Oracle Larry_TK
    #travel
    see the world! Make new friends!! Travel solo if you can't find company! Go back to college, get another degree or enroll in some courses, tech or non-teach any!! Find outdoor activities to do! The more you go out the more chances you have to meet new people and develop meaningful relationships and may be meet "the one"!
    Jan 9, 2018 2
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Good advise! Thanks. ☺️
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Aon Hewitt qTXq04
      Great advice!!
      Jan 10, 2018
  • Upgrade Clqe27
    Since you have money, it should assist with improving the other aspects of your life.

    Bay Area, due to skewed ratios, means women are pickier. As an immigrant guy, make sure your style and grooming are on point. Invest in some nice clothes, invest in some nice suits even (for occasions). Pick up other hobbies to diversify your interests (dance class, other classes with women are a nice bet as well). Make sure you lift weights and take care of your body.

    Start with these basics (if you haven’t already) and report back.
    Jan 9, 2018 3
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Good advise! Chuckled at "report back". 😀
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Microsoft Vbe
      Go to the same SoulCycle or yoga class consistently for 3 months. Say hi to regulars and make eye contact.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Oracle Larry_TK
      Couldn't agree more on self grooming comment above. Girls spend so much time and money to look good and look more stylish and hot, if you wanna hang out with a hot girl you gotta be at least look decent, you can't be sloppy lol. Spend money on gym trainer, clothes (gq.com) 😜 Be the change you aspire to see in others 😂
      Jan 9, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Facebook / Eng instandidl
      I was asking @Nvgkd.

      Anyway, the reason I ask is because it’s definitely harder to connect with people in the suburbs. It self selects for largely people who are more interested in raising a family or keeping to themselves in their comfortable home than people who want to have close friends.

      Try moving out of SJ and to an actual city. If you’re comparing “east coast” cuz you were in New York to San Jose, you’ll definitely be disappointed.
      Jan 11, 2018
    • Apple Nvgkd
      I was not in NY infact I was in a much smaller city Hartford. How would moving to a city help? I would be spending more time in commuting
      Jan 11, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      His theory is that you'd probably find more friendly social people in a city rather than a suburb.

      Thank you for sharing your experience, sounds all gloomy but I'm sure you'll find more friendly people soon enough. I've seen that people tend to get too caught up with their own lives (sometimes even siblings) once they have kids that their whole life just revolves around them. Sad but true. Once the kids grow old enough to fend for themselves, that's when reality kicks in that they've not made any real friends in a long time and end up feeling lonely. I've heard similar complaints about the Bay Area being more so than other places. I can only guess that it's partly due to the cut-throat competitiveness in anything and everything that goes on around here, which leaves very little time for anything else.

      I do have a few friends, both single and married, who take the effort to meet their friends often and have meaningful conversations. PM me if you'd like to meet such people.
      Jan 11, 2018
    • Amazon dnRx46
      This is mostly true. My idea of a good friend is someone you can call and call on at ungodly hours (or at least call on unannounced). My only such friends are the ones I made back home, in India.
      Jan 11, 2018
    • Salesforce ProdSch
      This is something I see fairly often, 2 hr commutes 8 to 10 hr jobs 2 hrs or so of chores and sleep takes the week away , so no socializing opportunities there.
      Weekend might be alligning with other such busy families and do something together. But ends up at the cost of next week prep.
      The whole referral stuff is something a lot of schools teach grads . So I have actually gone on the offensive and offer a referral before someone asks. Hey its free $2k for me😀
      Jan 11, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Wise words my friend, wise words!

      1. I've realized it but you can't blame me for making the mistakes that I made along the way to getting there. 😀

      2. I'm not giving up, just being honest/realistic.

      3. Very true. I'm lucky to have friends that I can count on.
      Jan 9, 2018
  • Whole Foods ModMagenta
    So you don't necessarily want a relationship and marriage, just want to keep a good social group?
    Jan 9, 2018 5
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      At least a good social group.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Intuit sydney
      You are not alone. I am in the same boat. Can't do the arranged marriage, cant seen to find someone either. And its not easy to make new reliable friends easily. I have tried various activities, traveling solo and everything thats suggested in the thread.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Sorry to hear that dude! I hope things get better for you, hang in there. There are plenty of well-meaning people on this thread that you could talk to for advise.

      Most importantly, be happy with yourself and other things will take care of themselves.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Facebook Tufta
      I feel for you guys. It sucks. Honestly, sometimes it just takes a lot of time. And you feel like you’ve exhausted all resources. And you take a break. And then it happens. There may not be logic despite the advanced methodology that I’ve proposed above. It’s one strategy and there’s no proven way to go about it that is universal.

      There is no guarantee at any point that you will meet your match. We all just have to work to get to a state where we are okay with however things turn out and more importantly okay with ourselves as human beings. It always seems, though, that usually-brief moment of self-acceptance and peace is when one magically becomes really attractive to others.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Aon Hewitt qTXq04
      It takes a lot of time and effort! I have a lot of single female friends and we are all going through the same thing.
      Jan 10, 2018
  • LinkedIn macncheez
    Why didn't dating apps work for you?
    Jan 9, 2018 4
    • Amazon amaman
      Exactly, it worked for me.
      Keep trying, don’t give up.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • LinkedIn macncheez
      Me as well. Knowing why it did not work might be the key to understand what you could do better. Personally, I learned a lot about myself from dating people I met on dating apps. I also had to adjust my expectations a bit, and I don't mean it in a bad way. The hit rate is terrible out here, but it does happen!
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Yeah, it was exactly the low hit (match) rate and way higher flake rate that made me give up on dating apps.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Airbnb ShoeSprung
      Stop using dating apps and start approaching women like a real man. Stop making excuses for yourself “I’m ugly. I’m fat. I’m brown. I’m a nerd. There are no single women in the bay”. All BS. The way to get women is to put in the work you lazy self loathing piece of shit. /tough-love.
      Jan 10, 2018
  • Square ooooooo1
    Try cocaine, not joking. Best social anxiety medication ever.
    Jan 9, 2018 9
    • Square ooooooo1
      I would add mushrooms to that list and DMT. Live changing in the most positive ways, each one.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Microsoft Vbe
      This is such wretched advice and #whileprivilege at its most annoying. How aware are all you experimental bros of the violence embedded in the supply chains to deliver you these illegal drugs that are so fun and “life changing/positive”? You want your “full human experience”? Then get off your ass and lobby your fucking congresspeople to legalize the shit. Otherwise getting it to you will rely on a vast network of desperate people (and their families) who are risking their lives to get you your transcendent fix. Enjoy your trip. Whatever idiot was advocating cocaine use just needs to do a quick search on the gruesome victims of the Medellín drug cartel to get the picture.

      I’m talking to you @instandidl and @ooooooo1. Unless you grew it yourself or cooked it up it your lab you are part of this and have blood on your hands.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Facebook / Eng instandidl
      @Vbe wtf? We’re talking about LSD and MDMA and shrooms, not heroine. You are so ignorant
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Microsoft Vbe
      Fuck that and learn to spell. You are the ignorant asshole here. You are replying to a post advocating the OP start using cocaine. But other drugs...don’t fool yourself thinking it’s a clean trade.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Square ooooooo1
      I'm perfectly aware of what it takes to get it made and imported, and knowing everything I don't care. It's not my problem. It's the problem of government policies, and it's not my job to convince a big alcohol and farma lobbyist that they should give up their share so that I can enjoy better and safer substances than they legally sell. I've also made my own shit from scratch, so fuck you and your high horse 🤗
      Jan 11, 2018
  • VMware theese
    this topic has been discussed to death. you just need to shift your focus from career to relationships. does hanging out with friends lead you to your goals? if not then don’t waste time there. go on lot of dates, meetups, get in shape . there are plenty of women in bay area. pm me if you need more help. if you are really set on changing location move to nyc but don’t expect things to change overnight. what you sow is what you reap.
    Jan 9, 2018 7
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Yep, I guess that's what it is.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Apple / Eng
      Marijuana

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      I ain’t got no worries.
      Marijuanamore
      Why not just date someone? You can always call it off after 1-2 months. Being with more women gives you confidence for sure.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      That doesn't feel right to me. Besides, I don't think it's for my lack of confidence. 😀
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Apple / Eng
      Marijuana

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      I ain’t got no worries.
      Marijuanamore
      Sure. Sometimes the best way to get a girl is to go out with her friend - make her jealous etc.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Cruise Automation / Eng
      That's petty and it's very bad form to go out with someone once your friend has been out with them. I've had guy friends I've been interested in who I immediately lost interest in once a close friend went out with him.

      I think giving someone a fair shot can take time unless you immediately recognize a huge incompatibility. I was turned off by his veganism but time has shown again and again that he's worth a shot. I'm actually pretty glad that I got a chance to get to know him.
      Jan 10, 2018
  • Google elsalvaz
    find a nice young sugar baby. better than a wife. cheaper than a wife.
    Jan 10, 2018 5
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      I hope you're just trolling!
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Google elsalvaz
      no i am not.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Cisco Arrested
      She doesn't love you
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Google elsalvaz
      i know. but she fills a hole. i also fill a hole LOL
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Cisco Arrested
      :/
      Jan 10, 2018
  • Facebook / Eng instandidl
    Go out and make some friends. If you click well, talk about real things. Do stuff for them.... not just with them. Struggle together.

    Life is about what you accomplish for vanishingly few people (Steve jobs, Elon Musk, etc). For everyone else, it’s about the people you love.
    Jan 9, 2018 1
    • T-Mobile immydayo
      What a fabulous and incisive comment
      Feb 10, 2018
  • Microsoft restartnow
    Just like money didn't equal happiness, may be a partner wouldn't either? Not qualified to advise you on how to be happy but I have heard meditation helps. From my experience I have learned being happy or content depends on you ( hard thing to do). Best wishes from an immigrant guy who came here half a decade ago. Have an amazing family but I wish I had more friends :) but I am happy as everything can't be perfect.
    Jan 10, 2018 2
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Well said! I'm not looking for happiness from a partner, just reliable companionship. Like you, I'm happy with my life and certainly content. But I've not conquered the occasional feeling of loneliness yet... 😀
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Whole Foods ModMagenta
      Sad to say, having a partner can reduce other sources of companionship, simply because the time necessary to invest in other friendships is decreased. What's worse is if your marriage ends after 7-10 years when it is more difficult to make friends...anyway, good luck, hope you find a group of likemindeds! :)
      Jan 10, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Netflix Djdmdj
      Ok deodorant has been brushed, now what
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Troll found! 😀
      Jan 9, 2018
  • eBay blueballs
    Coffee meets bagel
    Jan 9, 2018 2
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Didn't really work out for me.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • LinkedIn FjTJ72
      This app sucks
      Jan 9, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng
    Qwzxy1

    Amazon Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    BIO
    Disfruta tu vida.
    Qwzxy1more
    Take salsa dance classes. You’ll meet interesting women that way.
    Jan 10, 2018 6
    • Apple / Eng
      Marijuana

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      I ain’t got no worries.
      Marijuanamore
      Confidence, motherfucker. Do you have it?
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      Yeah, I'm confident enough to be replying calmly to peaches like yourself.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Qwzxy1

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      BIO
      Disfruta tu vida.
      Qwzxy1more
      One of the points of taking classes is precisely that you can show you want to work on improving yourself. That will earn you points with the right lady. You don’t need to be a master of it, you only need the will to have fun regardless.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Qwzxy1

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      BIO
      Disfruta tu vida.
      Qwzxy1more
      Furthermore, someone that learns at the same time you do is more likely to see you as a long term partner seeing that both of you can share the growth.
      Jan 10, 2018
    • Apple Veet51
      OP
      You make some very good points, I'll mull over it. Thanks!
      Jan 10, 2018
  • Gen!x / Eng
    XPbr65

    Gen!x Eng

    PRE
    Bank of America Merrill Lynch, HPE, Northrop Grumman
    BIO
    mehy
    XPbr65more
    Why was a career proxy for money?

    If you want money, chase money. Cut out career as a middleman. It simplifies life.
    Jan 9, 2018 4
    • Workday / Eng pootin
      You mean rob a bank?
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Facebook Yesdote
      Yeah exactly. Work at Wall Street ;)
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Microsoft GoodFood
      That's a career too.
      Jan 9, 2018
    • Gen!x / Eng
      XPbr65

      Gen!x Eng

      PRE
      Bank of America Merrill Lynch, HPE, Northrop Grumman
      BIO
      mehy
      XPbr65more
      I was partially tongue-in-cheek, but a careerist’s main goal is career growth in the hopes that money will come.

      My goal was money from day 1 which means taking jobs that may not be career growers, but allow the flexibility to do my thing.
      Jan 10, 2018