What are your views on ageism? How are senior developers over 40 treated? What is career progression like for older people who haven't made it to director/ principal levels yet? Just curious and wanted to hear thoughts Lmts at Salesforce, TC ~ 320k, 34/f
Honestly it is not just the hiring, it is the burnout. When companies have poor WLB employees who get older and married and have kids or just want any sort of life away from work, they have to leave the crunching 3 meal a day campus life behind.
Work at night 🤷♂️ but ymmv
Find a good place to ride it out and hodl.
I mean are you gonna hire the young hungry guy who’s single and doesn’t have a family and can dedicate his time to work? Or the older guy who needs to take a lot of vacation or time off cause of his family, also is kinda going blind and on top of that can be stubborn and not follow new trends? Who would you go for to hire?
Going blind at 40? What are you smoking?
Not what you are grandpa
I mean....let’s say you started practicing a musical instrument from age 22 to age 40 for 8 hours a day with amazing teachers surrounding you all day long and monetary incentive to improve your skills. Your resume usually lists how many years of experience you have. If you are not at least somewhat talented and respectable at your craft after 18 years of this then I don’t know what to say. Engineering is no different.
I don't think I would consider someone bad at their craft of they are an IC at 40. What's your point?
Not IC, being a PMTS at 40 is legit. But low level and 40 and 18 YOE raises questions
I have seen a lot of old ICs. But that might be survivor bias. I also see a lot of then Engineers driving Uber nowadays. In short, the boring answer will be: it depends. But ageism is real, no one can deny age is a disadvantage.
Yes the number of Uber engineer drivers is what prompted this question. Lots of them are willing to take Junior positions for low salary and are not arrogant at all
Hmm..somewhat agreeable...but it takes one rascal to ruin the career at one company...starting again and competing with younger folks is a tricky situation...that's when u realize ageism.
One reason to change jobs at the end i of every vesting period
Don’t get stuck as an IC after 40 unless it’s at a stable high paying role with a clear path to FIRE. Whether you’re still good or not you WILL suffer from ageism. After 40 you should be moving into leadership / management roles. Otherwise start your own company. Products speak for themselves.
Not everyone can move into management. What happens to others ? Also , companies are not willing to hire outside management
Others either continue to grow in IC technical scope becoming a technical fellow, become PMs, or get managed out 😂 Yes they do - I was hired as a manager.
I have not experienced any negative effects from being over 40. In fact, having a lot of experience has opened doors for me. Lots of tech companies have binged on cheaper less experienced developers and are now scrambling to bring in developers with enough experience to help balance out the team. There are advantages to having people who have a history of showing up and a proven ability to get things done. I have zero interest in the roles that expect no wlb- I know from lived experience that those tend to be a sign of ‘churn and burn’ dev shops that rely on a pool of talent that isn’t aware that the company plans to work them hard and replace them within a few years. You can learn new skills but experience is only gained over time. Know how to position yourself in the job market and you’ll be fine.
Explain more. What kind of engineer are you? Are you a manager or an IC?
I’m an IC at the moment. I’ve been a manager and it’s not where my passion is. I’m primarily a backend engineer. Recently I’ve had multiple companies reach out looking for people with experience to help balance teams that lean too heavily towards newer less experienced engineers. Having a good balance of experience levels is a good idea because newer developers aren’t as encumbered by locked in ideas of how things should be and more seasoned developers have a better sense of how things might play out over time rather than just for what’s needed in the short term. If you position yourself correctly in the job market you shouldn’t have trouble adapting as you get older. That’s just my $.02
I agree with duh in principle. The risks are specializing in an area via experience that becomes dated, as well as bias. Bias is extreme in tech. There are successful ICs that become technical fellows etc.
Good point. I’ve learned the hard way never to accept a position where you end up supporting a legacy product or find yourself working with technologies that are at the end of their lifecycle and have decreasing demand for people who know them.
companies usually lay off old ICs