An argument for Open Borders

Amazon Coatl
Nov 2 76 Comments

TLDR: Letting people migrate freely to places where they can be more productive creates more wealth and ofsets any possible negative impact.

Some quotes: “The central function of existing immigration laws is to prevent this wealth creation from happening—to trap human talent in low-productivity countries.”

“resistance to immigration is primarily cultural and political, not economic or logistical. While West Germans welcomed millions of East German migrants, a much lower dose of Middle Eastern and African migration has made the whole EU shiver. ”

“The most cogent objection to immigration, though, is that productivity depends on politics—and politics depend on immigration. Native-born citizens of developed countries have a long track record of voting for the policies that made their industries thrive and their countries rich. Who knows how vast numbers of new immigrants would vote?... At least in the United States, the main political division between the native- and foreign-born is engagement. Even immigrants legally able to vote are markedly less likely than native-born citizens to exercise this right.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/01/immigration-wall-open-borders-trillion-dollar-idea/

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TOP 76 Comments
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    Lol, look at these weak-ass hysterics from the xenophobes. They have no evidence for their arguments, but they know it will mean DOOM!😱
    Nov 2 20
    • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
      The moment you cheer for criminals to break the law I don't hold back. You deny reality for your fantasy.

      You advocate for extremes of open borders, I counter with extreme version of how we can have solid borders.

      If you want a sensible solution, then we can discuss a middle ground.
      Nov 2
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Amazon, so you read a lot of Aleksandr Dugin? Or just Britbart and all that?
      Nov 2
    • Amazon Coatl
      OP
      “How many people do you think US will have with open border?” Like the piece says, it worked out for West Germany, with a 25% increase in population.
      Nov 2
    • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
      Have no idea who Dugin is.
      Nov 2
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Ok. That’s good.
      Nov 2
  • Apple ijyA68
    Only works without a welfare state.
    Nov 2 11
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Well she says she likes it when I ask. So try asking and she might be less bored.
      Nov 2
    • Wayfair zDkt58
      I make my girl cum 4 times each time we have sex, don’t teach me nothing you fgt ass
      Nov 2
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Hmm. Yeah she mentioned that you have a fragile ego.
      Nov 2
    • Wayfair zDkt58
      Coming from the poly
      Nov 2
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Yeeeeaaaasssss
      Nov 2
  • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
    Remove all social programs and you got yourself a deal. (Shirley, you can't be serious)
    Nov 2 6
    • Amazon Coatl
      OP
      I don’t see why, those social programs are part of the reason people are more productive on countries that have them. This defeats the purpose of growing wealth.
      Nov 2
    • Uber / Eng itsdara
      You got it wrong, productive societies can afford to have social programs, not the other way around.
      Nov 2
    • Amazon Coatl
      OP
      On the contrary, safety nets promote risk taking, which drives innovation.
      Nov 2
    • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
      False.
      Nov 2
    • Oracle alwzangry
      Don't call them Shirley!
      Nov 2
  • LinkedIn U💰S💰D
    Cool story, you’ll make 60K TC with open border.
    Nov 2 11
    • LinkedIn U💰S💰D
      @OP No it means other countries exploit workers. Imagine US is surrounded by some empires practicing slavery, do you want to open your border and absorb those slaves into your country to compete with you? Or do you want to ask the other empires to abolish slavery?

      In US at least workers get to reap some of the rewards. Not true in many other countries.
      Nov 2
    • Uber gh5ht8g
      The latter, LinkedIn. Other countries should abolish whatever slavery you think is going on. Hell, even a policy of unrestricted immigration from non-slavery countries is reasonable.

      I think quid pro quo in a situation like this is reasonable, esp since policies like this would be extremely unpopular without such an agreement.
      Nov 2
    • LinkedIn U💰S💰D
      We are somewhere in the middle because we have H1, L1, TN visa etc to bring in qualified foreign workers without depressing wages too much.

      Is that too much immigration or too little? I honestly don’t know. I’d like to hear good arguments but I don’t like extreme ideas such as “open border”.
      Nov 2
    • Uber gh5ht8g
      I think we haven't moved enough towards open borders- it's still too hard to hire new developers. I know this is subjective, but I don't have access to real labor data for tech- I can only go off of what I see.

      I think open borders is an excellent ideal to strive towards, but there are real hurdles in the way. That's not the same as saying that open borders are bad. My Hope is that one day all nations will be able to have compatible labor laws and pools. 🤞
      Nov 2
    • Amazon Coatl
      OP
      “do you want to open your border and absorb those slaves into your country to compete with you” Yes, that’s the point, the economy is nor a Zero Sum game, we are producing more wealth now than ever before, if more people come, more opportunities will come for everyone.
      Nov 2
  • Uber gh5ht8g
    I thought everyone knew that open borders were an economically sound idea. It's pretty basic economics
    Nov 2 4
    • Microsoft lHcN54
      No. You forgot about taxes and safety net. Everybody wants to go to "developed world" but guess what happens to social security, etc. in this case
      Nov 2
    • Uber gh5ht8g
      Yes. Free markets require free labor. If you want a capitalist society, you can't make it efficient without free labor movement.

      Re: taxes and safety net- earners in the US pay taxes here. This is already the case. Safety net: I have no idea if immigrants are eligible, but if they pay taxes they should be (maybe limited by how much they've paid in, or social security treaties between countries?).

      I'm not talking about illegal immigration and under the table jobs. The argument is that legal immigration should be trivialized so countries can have efficient labor markets
      Nov 2
    • Microsoft lHcN54
      Driving for Uber is very efficient.. for Uber. But not for its drivers.
      If there is no scarcity, there are no benefits.
      "Free labor" you mention will be exactly that: you will be working almost for free
      Nov 2
    • Uber gh5ht8g
      Yes. I'm aware that wages will drop (at least at the entry level). My econ classes tell me that tech wages are therefore artificially high and are being propped up at the expense of an efficient market that could create a lot more utility if this labor ceiling was removed.

      And I assure you that not much is efficient at Uber. Efficiency is achieved for buyer AND seller, not just one party. If the situation is good for Uber and bad for drivers, then efficiency has not been achieved. Cheap wages doesn't mean Uber is better off- higher wages would give us more drivers, and I'm honestly of the opinion that our rates should be higher.
      Nov 2
  • Apple gfagab
    Lulz!! Why do we do it with our homes too. Let anyone enter and contribute economically to our home. Unfortunately, that’s not how it works. You will let people enter your home who just wants the freebies available. Remove 100% of government assistance including in roads, infrastructure and let everything be funded by private taxes and require everyone to work, and then your idea can make sense.

    Unfortunately, Democratic Party is already forcing this down our throats!
    Nov 2 2
    • Amazon Coatl
      OP
      For the same reason I can’t do a Putin and occupy my neighbor’s land, countries and homes serve different purposes, but let’s take your argument seriously, in the past before single nuclear family home ownership was a social norm, several families did live together and contributed economically to a single household.
      Nov 2
    • Microsoft Fffreedom
      But can you do Obama or Bush though?
      Nov 3
  • Microsoft tfsUEwWt
    comical
    Nov 2 0
  • Uber / Eng itsdara
    What about the leeches? Can they freely move to where they'll get the most benefits while not having to work?
    Nov 2 4
    • Amazon Coatl
      OP
      Yes, the idea is that this is a non-issue as given the opportunity the vast majority of humans will be willing to participate on the economy instead of taking advantage of it. Making dealing with abuse, a solvable problem.
      Nov 2
    • Uber / Eng itsdara
      LoL you have no idea, has the current abuse been solved yet?
      Nov 2
    • Overstock.com
      🦕$🦖

      Overstock.com

      PRE
      Symantec
      🦕$🦖more
      Most people will do as little work as possible for the biggest benefit. You would have more people on the dole and less productivity. The only way this would be beneficial is if you eliminated all safety nets.
      Nov 2
    • Amazon Coatl
      OP
      Sorry, but I don’t agree, people who are inherently lazy won’t venture to the unknown in masse to take advantage of whatever safety net there is, moving to a different place means sacrifices, even when it’s for the better.
      Nov 2
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    Why does migration need to serve capitalism in order to be justified?

    How about we should have the ability to move (without fear of government repression) in order to improve our lives or flee war or violence?
    Nov 2 1
    • Uber gh5ht8g
      Because people are greedy and want what's best for them. Tying it to capitalism appeases that greedy aspect.

      (And yes, everyone is greedy/greed is good/whatever)
      Nov 2
  • Google AtіnlayXVI
    Wealth for whom? Business and government might reap in the dollars but average people will have to deal with even more housing scarcity, depressed wages, and strained pubic infrastructure.

    Real life isn't a game of Sim City.
    Nov 2 0
  • Verizon Media Igpay
    “you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
    Nov 2 0
  • Instasize cplus
    The globalists are getting increasingly nervous. Good
    Nov 3 1
  • Amazon odh79ebB
    Iatrogenics.
    Nov 2 0
  • eBay tysonlee
    There is a good chance that, that’s how world will be 200 years from now.

    However, we talk so much about benefits of diversity but wouldn’t this make everyone so similar?
    Nov 2 0
  • Microsoft wndir
    We can write the same essay about communism.
    Nov 3 0
  • Amazon brwl34
    Please provide examples of countries which currently have a working open border policy. Or were you suggesting the USA should just allow everyone in and play Guinea pig?
    Nov 2 0

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