As expected, h1b further favoring US Master's

New inmann
Feb 10 32 Comments

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TOP 32 Comments
  • Amazon heyyeh
    It's a move towards people with master's degree. I wouldn't call that merit until they start prioritizing good schools.

    I'd rather get a CS undergrad from Berkely or Stanford than a PhD from Bangalore Upstairs Technical Institute
    Feb 1012
    • Amazon Vqdu61
      Whoosh
      Feb 10
    • Amazon heyyeh
      Ah fixed typo, I'm using my phone
      Feb 10
    • Amazon Vqdu61
      I had to intentionally make a typo to write that - my keyboard wouldn't let me write it 😂

      Seriously though, how do you compare schools? I have an MS from Stanford. How do you compare that to, say, an MS from CMU? Cornell? A PhD from IIT? Undergrads may be easier to compare, but grad schools aren't. How do you account for your research quality? It's not a one dimensional rating - how do you implement the comparison function? Who's going to do the measuring and auditing of this massive undertaking?
      Feb 10
    • Amazon heyyeh
      Yeah my phone makes lots of typos, the f and d are side by side.

      There are likely a number of ways to judge the merit of schools, the point is that the current proposal isn't measuring merit.

      Most likely it's measuring "willing to spend an extra two years of my life in school to get a US visa" since you can just go to some joke school. That is the opposite of merit!

      This matters because setting up joke schools is exactly how the body shops currently dominate the visa system. They will just update their process to tick this box.

      If instead we could tell the difference between IIT and the joke schools it would be a real improvement.
      Feb 10
    • Amazon Vqdu61
      I agree with you - it *would* be a good thing. I just don't see how you could reasonably implement in a way that wouldn't cause more harm than the problem it's trying to fix. And we're just talking about visas - the real problem is the inability to get permanent residency for Indian and Chinese nationals.
      Feb 10
    • Amazon heyyeh
      One way is to have a panel of experts do it. When you say "more harm" you need to be careful: having no rules is currently devastating causing the 100 year queue for India.

      Being unfair to a handful of people from obscure schools would be less harm than being unfair to all people or being unfair to all Indians.

      The goal is to block the consulting shops that set up online schools to manufacture credentials and then spam applications.
      Feb 10
    • New inmann
      OP
      Heyyeh. It is only for US Masters degree.
      Feb 10
    • Amazon heyyeh
      There are crap online schools in the US.

      Do we really want to incent people going to school an extra two years just to get a Visa?

      Stack rank schools worldwide, or at least in the US, and take the grads from the best schools first. With that policy I'm ok removing the greencard country cap since I think it says something if you can get into Harvard or MIT (extend the concept to eb2).
      Feb 10
    • Wells Fargo qUyB01
      People who are accepted at crap schools usually have a problem getting a visa. Knew a few people who got denial because the consulate officer was doubtful about the quality of the institution
      Feb 10
    • Amazon heyyeh
      Well that's visa officers trying to do right with the limited tools they have. We need em to be able to reject crap schools and consultants directly because they are crap schools and consultants, NOT looking for excuses.

      Consulting should be only for top experts paid significantly more then the average wage, the expert you bring in who is seen as your top guy, to come in and train your staff as establish best practices, never low wage.

      I think we should not allow h1b to be used for consulting unless the wage paid is at least double the ordinary wage paid in that job category.
      Feb 10
  • Microsoft Dr. Root
    It's just breadcrumbs. Not exactly "merit" based but a step in the right direction nonetheless.
    Feb 102
    • Amazon heyyeh
      I'm less sure.

      The root cause of the problem of gaming by Indian body shops.

      This is playing the game, they will play along. In fact it will be harder for truly meritorious people to get through since it becomes a credential war in a world where nobody checks that quality of the credentials.

      We need a way to end the game.
      Feb 10
    • New inmann
      OP
      Exactly Dr. root. That's what I meant
      Feb 10
  • Amazon / EngYolo!
    Masters is the new Bachelors and PHD is the new Masters.
    Feb 101
    • Datometry / EngLangEr
      ^ This
      Feb 10
  • How does it impact people with undergrad degrees only or consulting companies like infosys etc?
    Feb 105
    • Amazon heyyeh
      People with legit undergrads will lose to people with fake online master's
      Feb 10
    • New inmann
      OP
      Not fake. But agree, online master's degree student may have an advantage vs undergrad
      Feb 10
    • Amazon heyyeh
      By fake I mean not an indication of merit because it wasn't hard to get
      Feb 10
    • New inmann
      OP
      That's subjective. I still don't understand your point. Are you saying master's education (from an acreedited US University) isn't good enough to compete with undergrad schools (even highly ranked once). Then you are questioning the whole acreedition system of education.
      Feb 10
    • Amazon heyyeh
      Yes I'm saying a master's (or any degree) from a fly by night school, whether in the US or elsewhere, is not any indication of merit while an undergrad in CS from a widely respected school, again in or out of the US, is a very strong signal.

      In fact when I'm reviewing resumes when I see those dodgy degrees I discard the resume because it signals a LACK of merit. It's actually a negative. Something wrong with that candidate!

      In short nobody really cares how much education you have. It's what school you attended that matters. And that's primarily because it's just not easy to even get in to IIT, Cambridge, U of Tokyo, or MIT. Just getting past their admissions committee is a strong signal, REGARDLESS what level degree program they accepted you for.
      Feb 10
  • Microsoft nodaddy
    They'll just get an express masters from an online college in their own country. The are shitty, cheap and fast. Nice work.
    Feb 102
    • Amazon heyyeh
      Exactly. Education isn't merit.

      Education from a top school may be.
      Feb 10
    • New inmann
      OP
      It's US Master's.. please read first
      Feb 10
  • Dell Shortyy
    We are talking abt getting an h1b which is just the first step in 70 yr long GC journey .. lol
    Feb 101
    • Amazon heyyeh
      Yeah but it's actually the problem. AC21 dramatically increased the number of h1b's that the body shops could apply for and that is actually why the greencard queue is jammed

      They juiced the top of the funnel but not the bottom.

      India also shares responsibility for allowing (actually promoting) a bunch of shady consulting businesses and shady schools which exist only to spam h1b applications.

      That combo is why your life sucks.

      We need a solution to the body shop spam. With that in place we ought to be able to open the system up to everyone equally without ANY backlog for anyone.

      But removing the limits without stopping the body shops will result in a catastrophe where that 100 year queue ends up being everyone's experience.
      Feb 10
  • How does it change from existing?
    Feb 101
    • New inmann
      OP
      Why don't you read the full news transcript first?
      Feb 10
  • New inmann
    OP
    I changed the subject line to avoid confusion / debate
    Feb 100

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