Employer won’t respond to negotiation on terms of Termination after lay off. What to do ?Jan 17
So I was laid off last week. I sent out an email to the delivery list provided for Q&A and negotiation around the Terms of Termination. It’s been a week and they haven’t responded to my email ! I only have until next week to accept the T&C to be eligible for a lump sum severance pay out. I’ve tried to follow up on email ( which is the only point of contact provided in the termination letter ) but no response yet.
I’m sure they are not responding so in the end when I’m out of time I’ll just accept the terms they mentioned at first, and they won’t have to do anything.
How can I fight back with the clock ticking ? Should I forward the negotiation email to my Manager ? or my Manager’s Manager ( who broke the “You’re getting laid off “ news to me ) ?
- Twitter SofH55Honestly consider it, there are ways to do it without spending much or anything. A lot of employment lawyers (and lawyers in general) including the very good ones will do a free consultation either in person or on the phone. You can talk to them about the offer and they can tell you whether they think they could negotiate or help. Sometimes even just an email from a lawyer (because they know you’re more serious) will cause them to adjust and you may be able to negotiate either a reasonable flat fee or a % of the increase from the lawyerJan 1714
- Booking.com ProudlyBFirstly you can contact Human Resources - they are the team usually that manages these types of processes.
You are well within your rights to approach your manager, his manager and Human Resources in same email and request feedback to your answers as no one is responding.
I’d take this step first and see response. Depending on response see legal advice - as correctly pointed out most first consults are free but if you have to think about what advice they will give u -
1. Accept offer - no cost to litigate
2. Try and negotiate without lawyer - they don’t respond so no result
3. Negotiate with lawyer and you may increase your severance but also you will increase cost of getting higher amount
4. Challenge severance or layoff legally (where law may not protect you sufficiently to successfully challenge it and as such you have to pay legal fees and you lose time,effort and are still paid the same severance;
5. You win and make lots of money after a long period of time challenging it.
Those are possible outcomes - they are not great outcomes save for 5. Thus easiest option is try and negotiate if not settle and move on - don’t waste time on negative stuff - life is too short...
Good luckJan 178
- Take a red marker (or electronic equivalent thereof). Edit the T&C to your satisfaction. Place your initials next to each edit. Put your signature on the edited version. Mail it back to them using certified mail.
They face two choices:
1. Spend lawyer time telling you off.
2. Sign your version and send it back to you.
What else have you got to lose?
- Every person I have ever worked with or for that considers a person that has ever worked with or for me in the past has called to ask about them, and I'm just some random jackass. The vps of the tech industry have deep connections with former colleagues all over the place. Rub someone the wrong way and they could be the nail in your coffin many places.
- You’re describing the grapevine I alluded to. Where we disagree is in the nature of the deed. The OP is staring down separation paperwork that is unacceptable to them. Like with any contract, some negotiation is to be expected. The OP doesn’t *need* to be an asshole about it. Sending back a redlined contract is a standard industry practice. No one in their right mind would even remember this if called for a reference. Especially in finance, where defamation lawsuits after a negative reference are a real concern, the most they’ll say is “here are the dates of employment, bye.”
I don’t see any risk in redlining the contract. The person on the other end will be a legal drone whose job it is to ensure that no lawsuit happens. More often than not it’s cheaper for them to just roll with it than risk a suit.
- Lol inviting a lawsuit? Over what? If you red-line their agreement, sign it and send it back, they’ll just not accept it and you’re left with nothing. You don’t have a case - layoffs aren’t illegal - accept the severance and spend your time finding a new job instead of trying to figure out how to game this.Jan 178
- Lol what he has “got to lose” is his severance pay. People get laid off all the time. It sucks but sometimes they were a bad fit or something else. At least he got some sort of severance.
Op shouldn’t waste energy feeding the crazy and sleazy lawyers in plaid suits made out of motel drapes. Unless Op is a complete disaster (which does not appear to be) he should calm down and plan out how to get his next gig. It’s bad advice to get him to waste energy chasing Bigfoot.
- Apple SnVL04Ex-TC and lump sum or GTFO? Always wondered how much they gave in these situations. Is it like 3 months salary? 4?
- When I was laid off from NVIDIA 10 years ago I think it was 2 weeks pay instead of two weeks notice. Two weeks pay. And two weeks pay per year of employment. And a couple of other things. My severance ended up being almost 1/5th of my yearly salary despite only being there for 14 months.
- You’re not in a position of strength so they don’t have to negotiate.
You can reject the terms and try your luck with the legal system.
Unless you have an egregious violation, the approach is rarely successful.
Kinda sucks, but that’s the system we have
- New sssqqqlllDon't listen to this stupid advice. In real life these types of accusations are investigated thoroughly for obvious reasons and lies will likely be uncovered. Further, even if you're successful, you're permanently branding yourself as unemployable unless there is incontravertiable public evidence that you were wronged.
- Do NOT claim damage due to discrimination if there was NO discrimination.
Please don’t listen to such careless, irresponsible advice based on “that’s how the game is played” sentiments. That is NOT how the game is played. Don’t ruin your reputation or your moral compass for a few bucks here & there.
Lawyer up if needed. Do the right thing and fight for your rights. Demand what you think you deserve. But don’t play these stupid games.Jan 183
- Thumbtack helloTTThe laws around this are different depending on the state you’re in, so Washington is going to have different laws than California, and they’re certainly going to be different in NY, being from black rock, I wouldn’t take anyone’s advice from Microsoft or anyone from silicone valley.
- You can’t just negotiate on the terms of your Lay-off. It’s a take it or leave it severance
- I obviously can’t discuss specifics. But both times I’ve gotten about 25% more monetarily, plus some other non-monetary terms I added. They agreed to all of it on first try which probably means I could have asked for more, but obviously not having much leverage in the situation made me more inclined to be conservative.
Flagged by the community.
- In order to not face a tax penalty a company must follow strict rules in order to claim they are performing a layoff.
If you feel they are in violation and you can prove it then lawyer up.
I got more money out of a company because they laid me off right before I went on pre approved paid leave.
If you don't have something like that. Take what they give you and move on.Jan 176
- If you’re in CA you’re considered at will. You’re effed. Get the severance, pick up your boot straps and get another job. I did it. You can too.
- @Op I mean this kindly, what is there to negotiate? I mean they laid you off. What is there to negotiate? W/O knowing more my guess is you’re “negotiating” against Corben Dallas in the 5th Element. They just put terms like “negotiate” there because you are of course free to reject their offer. That is the extent of your negotiating ability in this circumstance. Sorry man.
Also the best advice I can give you is to take your severance and what you learned and be successful at your next play. Don’t let these idiots here convince you to waste any further emotional energy chasing the past.
Also unless they stripped you naked and rode you around like a pony on Facebook Live...hiring a lawyer is worse than useless. Don’t listen to these poltroons and shit house lawyers and their bad advice. Hiring an employment lawyer will also 99% get you black balled for life in the Valley.
- Lots. It costs $20-30k to recruit an engineer. If you make a blog post that goes viral about the incident, you could reduce their offer acceptance rates. At a company of this size, even a few percentage points can greatly increase recruitment costs. Gag clauses in severance greatly diminishes that risk.
- I have successfully negotiated severance twice. You need to keep it super light and happy, and DO NOT formally reject their offer. You need to say you’d propose some adjustments.
One of the times I negotiated they did ghost me the first week (which it did say needed to be signed in 7 days), and I just kindly followed up a couple of times. That worked. And they sent back a new agreement with everything I asked for. It is a legal document, so it may take a while for them to process it as various depts may need to approve it.
I would follow up daily until they reply. If they keep ghosting you, you’ll have to decide whether to sign (and hope they still agree) or leave it.
It’s worth consulting a lawyer (like $300-$500) for them to walk you through everything. Because sometimes they can include non-competes and other clauses that may make it not worthwhile and you may not fully understand what everything means.
- Because they never had to give you severance in the first place. The amount of leverage you have after those 7 days is no different to what you had before they offered severance.
The reason they offer it is because it gives them control. You won’t be able to speak to the media, you won’t be able to join a class-action suit against them. In some cases, you won’t be able to work for a direct competitor.
Essentially, it gives them peace of mind. Even if you file a frivolous lawsuit, it takes up a lot more resources than if they offer you a small severance package. It is still in their best interest that you sign.
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- Uber 🌴Were they an at will employer? If so, they don’t have to give you anything. You could take them to courts but you could end up getting nothing.
- Facebook 8O8St8Figure out your rights, if any. Then decide whether the stress and bitterness is worth pursuing this any further. Or, accept, learn and move on up.
You're a disposable commodity (I'm sorry if this stings) and you entered into a business contract with this company. This is all it is about. Try not to take it personally. There are better things to be spending your time on during this period, such as evaluating your strengths and seeing how they can be applied to new or different roles.
- Amazon BigglesYou rejected the idea of getting a lawyer, so...
Yeah, you got nothing.
An employment lawyer is some money, but they also know your options better than you will, and if you find one that has dealt with your employer before in similar circumstances, will know whether they will negotiate.
What do you want? Different terms? More money? Pride? Vengeance?
A lawyer *might* help with the first two, but not the last two.
There is also a distinct possibility that the contract they want you to sign has terms that are unenforceable in your state. Non-compete varies from state to state, for instance, so whatever you find objectionable might not even apply.
- LinkedIn quokkIf you have a shred of leverage you should lawyer up or ask for more! companies have insurance against this and will happy to settle out of court
- Chase hJjw26@OP, hey man, I am in a similar situation. Any Updates? Please message me. Thanks.
- What is wrong with you guys? Literally the only thing you could “negotiate” is if you accept your severance or not. If you “negotiate” you will not get your severance. You are owed nothing really. The company gave you some severance so that you can find a new job and won’t waste their time with nuisance lawsuits that you will lose anyway. Plus you will likely get black balled if you sue them. As I read posts like yours I feel bad for you but wonder if your posts are just more evidence as to why you got let go.Jan 210
- New incognltoLay off are normal. Used to be common in the Valley in early 2000. New recession is probably close, which will accelerate them. They don't do me any damage to the career, if they happen to one at an expected rate at the time. I have one under my belt and it never hurt me. I personally would accept the severance. in the year I was laid off this turned out to be a great year for me financially because of the overlap on compensation.
- Credit Suisse Sben34I was in similar situation couple of years back.... believe me, fighting will not resolve anything....it would just eat up your time and effort. It's better to move on, very difficult to accept but practical. It actually helped me... think twice before you make any decisions but once deceided never look back...
- Capital One MrProductDefinitely go there in person and see HR given that the time is running out. Also talk to a lawyer who will do a free consultation. A 2-pronged approach on this is important to ensure you stop the clock no matter what. The company expects you to NOT take action. They expect you to think about your options and keep thinking until you have no more options. You have to take action. No time to waste.
- I’m guessing this is your first time through a lay-off. They are not going to be motivated to pay legal hours to craft a custom exit document, nor are they going to want to have to follow up in a custom way. Essentially, your options are to take the severance and agree to the terms or not. They are not likely to lawyer up to enforce anti-anonymous-shitposting clauses, but they will protect IP, etc.
- NerdWallet cathexyHey @lary OP, sorry to hear about this. I was Ex-BLKer so I really feel for all my colleagues after the news broke last week about firmwide layoffs. Out of curiosity, what dept were you in and how long were you there? I do think these factors probably matter in how much you can negotiate. And given the news, their HR dept. is likely stretched pretty thin so that could be why you’re not getting a response. I think the advice here on researching time limits to accept T&C and rights would be helpful at this point. And knowing the firm, not sure how much budge you’ll have in negotiations. That’s just my honest take. As much as the firm was great, they historically underpaid across the industry so I can’t imagine T&C severance would be that hefty. Good luck to you, from one Ex-BLK to another.
- New NMNb77I had similar situation, the employer told that they were evaluating the request . Their lawyer got in touch with my lawyer asking for a delay. Then blew through the timelines and disappeared. You have to consider that you may need to walk a long way before they settle/approve your terms. Though legal work probably will be free as for these kind of work many lawyers work on contingency. Look at a year/two at least.
- New jtjw20Employment falls under common law, so there is wide latitude for judges to apply judgements. Spend the $800 and talk to an employment lawyer for an hour. Listen to other advice in this thread with a healthy amount of skepticism. The lawyer should be able to tell you, after hearing the particulars of your situation, if they have seen other similar situations, and what the likely outcomes could be.
- New behoomanYou need a lawyer and you need to determine if the company is going under. Essentially hope that your contract doesn’t contract out of common law. They owe you what they wrote on the contract otherwise they owe you what is stated in common law. Negotiate with the lawyer on contingency they might charge you money for a demand letter. If they win they will take a percentage of the winnings. Ask for a couple of consultations
- Does the T&C doc ask anything of you, like a promise not to sue or talk badly about your experience with your employer? If so, they want you to sign it and you do have some leverage. A letter from you stating what your request is and why you feel it’s reasonable might nudge them a little. But only if they have reason to want you to sign.