False things many Indians believe about the greencard system

Amazon acker
Jul 18 202 Comments

I have noticed a lot of misinformation out there about the greencard system so let's clear a few things up.

1. India isn't limited to 7% of the greencards today. Due to spillover (google it) India gets additional visas, and generally much more than it's 17% proportion of the world population.

2. You don't need an h1b to apply for a greencard, you can apply directly from outside the US, or apply while on a different visa such as L, O, E, TN or even F. Lots and lots of people do it via L

3. There are not 144k greencards available to clear the backlog. The backlog is in the EB2 and EB3 preference categories which have 80k visas in today, 40k each. The 144k number included EB1, EB4 and EB5 which are not relevant. 10k of these are actually meant to go to unskilled workers so it really should only be 70,000 unless that set aside is cancelled.

4. The consulting companies actually do dominate the greencard applications from India, not only the h1 system. The overwhelming number of petitions for Indians relate to low paying third party employment, particularly Cognizant, Infosys and Wipro.

5. There are far more applications every year than there are i140 petitions and most petitions request greencards for spouse and children as well. For example, removing the country cap won't change that there are many more than 80k incoming requests for only 80k visas.

6. You don't lose your spot in line by leaving the country, so every Indian who filed an i140 then left the US is still eligible

7. You don't even need to be working for the sponsor at the time you receive the greencard, only after. This is uncommon in tech but in medicine it is very common for the foreign employee to join the sponsor only sorry receiving the greencard.

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TOP 202 Comments
  • Microsoft waddaheck
    Think about why we don’t see many Chinese consulting companies. Why a country of similar population doesn’t have as many GC applicants. Think about what will happen once we open the flood gate of opening up without country quota.

    Do you think you will get fair chance? No, it will only benefit the few people who applied for GC a long time ago from the country with exceeding limit. Soon the companies from the same country will figure out a way to game the system and there will be much more applicants than now from the country. The queue will increase significantly and no one will get GC in hundreds of years not to mention wages going down and labor practices becoming more like the consulting companies instead of US.

    If you work at FANG, wouldn’t you keep working there? Imagine consulting companies having much more power. You will get GC but you will be laid off and start working as a consultant with 1/3 of TC.
    Jul 18 62
    • Walmart 🌲50
      Thanks Oracle for supporting pro hr1044 with that data. Firstly, as Google pointed out, it shows significant amount of "fraud" from ROW, as per your conclusion from the data. Secondly, it implicitly means that you ratify/trust/support USCIS decisions on those petitions that it did NOT deny, which eventually went on to be added to the GC queue. Implies, you agree that the GC queue is full of meritorious applicants (because according to you all the undeserving Indian and row applicants were already stemmed through H1B and L1 denials )
      Jul 21
    • Oracle embarcoder
      Ooh! I am certain USCIS is not done. This is just the beginning since the BAHA EO was enacted.

      BTW H1B is not the only feeder to GC, here is the L1b denial rate.. notice a pattern here? Maybe by the time USCIS is done sanitizing the Q, there may be no need for HR1044.. win-win for everybody, isn't it?
      Jul 21
    • Google / Eng
      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿ

      Google Eng

      PRE
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      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿmore
      Number of new L1Bs approvals are low (under 1k across all countries (https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/Reports%20and%20Studies/Immigration%20Forms%20Data/BAHA/L_FY17_Approved_Petitions_010918.pdf). Even if you assume 50% denial, the number of new applicants are under 2k each year.

      Comparing approvals: 1k (L1B) to 85k+ (H1B) is under 2% - still a minority even if you claim that all the denials are fraudulent.

      The queue is filled with H1B petitioners. So, yes, the wait times would still be decades (70+ years: conservative estimate) and HR1044 can help bring it down.
      Jul 21
    • Oracle embarcoder
      Ahem, reading comprehension fail !?!?!

      According to the link that YOU posted, there were 36k L1 applications in 2017. There were more than 1000 from TCS alone.
      Jul 21
    • Google / Eng
      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿ

      Google Eng

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      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿmore
      No, it's a failure at your end. I clearly said "new" (not continuing ones) and "L1B" (not L1, since your image consisted of L1B). Visit the link again and count. If you want a more accurate number, try and filter out all the non-tech firms there.

      Be thorough in your reading and don't conclude based on your existing views.
      Jul 21
  • Oracle SLVT77
    The mos important point is that more people apply for green cards than there are available green cards. This is a very imp point that congress poorly understood. HR1044 will never clear the backlog .. this is basics of queuing theory.

    The backlog never gets cleared HR1044 only changes who is in it.
    Jul 18 46
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      Microsoft, so how does your data show ~25K applications for Indians at 75K? That's imaginary/incorrect, right ? I know that data link all too well. Can we browse till the end of that list and see if it adds up to ~25K applications from Indian consultancies? Note the number of petitions drastically drops right from number 3 or 4.
      Jul 20
    • Google / Eng
      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿ

      Google Eng

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      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿmore
      @Oracle I didn't do it and I'm unaware of it. Also, I'm not too active on blind. So I cannot acknowledge something that I'm not aware of.

      Let's say discrimination towards a community was legal and people from that community have faced it for decades. Now they get a realistic shot of lawmakers trying to remove this discrimination and see a big opposition. They'd try to fight this opposition by diverse means. Some are non-violent, some are not.

      The above holds true for any race, nationality, etc. I don't see merit in cherrypicking incidents and generalize them to suit your views.

      We're digressing from the prior discussion, let's stick to the numbers.
      Jul 20
    • LinkedIn ex-fb
      @Oracle look, I will readily admit Indians have a tendency to flag things they disagree with —one of the many cultural issues with Indians.

      That being said, No-one here in the US representing India and it is not my problem. And such communal responsibility is universally accepted to be racist and unAnmerican. “Segregation is justified because so many Blacks .....”.

      If you’ve a problem with fraud go after fraud. As simple as that.
      Jul 20
    • New FeEL05
      @google: Also why would you divide #population of a country. It simply doesn’t matter. Fact is immigration policy’s job first and foremost isn’t doing what’s fair to the individual immigrant but what’s good for the country and its citizens. Having a massively skewed diversity ratio because of large amounts of immigrants from one cultural background isn’t good for the country and it’s citizens. Immigration needs to be at a reasonable rate and people need to integrate into the culture rather than running their own little parallel culture. Note that I’m an immigrant myself and do realize that on a personal level it doesn’t feel right, or fair or anything. I do think we need to sort out the abuse part first by shutting down the DDoS applications from Consultancies etc. though.
      Jul 21
    • Walmart 🌲50
      @New If you are not tolerant towards other culture and want everyone to integrate into the US culture, I m afraid you are a threat to the society. Also you are completely incorrect on the diversity count. Mostly all GC applicants are already in the US. Granting GC to them is not going to change diversity ratio.
      Jul 21
  • Microsoft
    Tier 1

    Microsoft

    BIO
    #1 in Prestige
    Tier 1more
    The consulting companies are the problem.

    The law isn’t broken. The consulting companies breaking the law, and ruining it for everyone.
    Jul 18 32
    • Google / Eng
      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿ

      Google Eng

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      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿmore
      Since you speak the truth, I have a couple of questions:
      Do you benefit from the status quo (over HR1044)?
      What's your status, priority year and queue?
      I'd roughly know the answers if you don't want to reveal (at least over a PM).
      Jul 19
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      I am American and I believe S2091 > status quo > HR1044.
      Jul 19
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      @hooli Sure - I believe that the Earth is flat and the moon is a Russian conspiracy. 😁
      Jul 19
    • Google / Eng
      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿ

      Google Eng

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      Amazon, Netflix
      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿmore
      @hooli: Why so (since S2091 includes HR1044)? Do you know that HR1044 will raise wages for Americans? Are you for crushing the American dream of somebody who may be smarter (and well paid) than you but has to wait 70+ years to be represented and someone else with an entry level job enjoying the rights within a year? And all this based on an arbitrary thing like where they were born.

      Thanks for your bias!
      Jul 19
    • Amazon acker
      OP
      @Google, I already have a greencard so it doesn't directly matter to me.

      Indirectly those $69k consultants are not my competition so in fact I'm arguing against my own self interest since hr1044 would reduce the number of people who can compete for my job.
      Jul 19
  • Groupon / Eng sleepy
    Under current conditions, all big companies FAANG will soon open up big offices in India and ship jobs there. I’m really scared of the last part as I myself was a beneficiary of that, when h1b visa numbers were cut. If we’re ok with that then status quo is fine.
    Jul 19 47
    • Walmart 🌲50
      Oh you seemed very worried for sure. 😎
      Jul 20
    • Amazon hadron
      Tell us again how you came to the US for "travel" and not for the comp 😂
      Jul 20
    • Walmart 🌲50
      Oh you got that all wrong. I came for comp for sure. I told you to travel to broaden your horizons. Common, at least that was not rocket science, that was English. As a STEM grad from US (I assume) you should be able to get that bit at least, if not any other things, for which there are always immigrants.
      Jul 20
    • Amazon hadron
      Ok. So we've established that my economic refugee claim was correct. By the way I've lived in four countries on three continents. How about you?
      Jul 20
    • Walmart 🌲50
      Did you ever see me debunk your economic refugee claim ? I embraced it. I tagged everyone as economic refugee and showed you why that proves you need immigration all the more since we, the economic refugees, are leading your tech. Like I said before, you should hope that we choose to continue lending our expertise to US, because the day we don't, there won't be anyone qualified enough to carry your country forward.
      Jul 20
  • Amazon аlv
    Too much bickering. It’s time to close the doors. MAGA 🇺🇸 🦅 🇺🇸 🦅
    Jul 19 0
  • Apple majong
    #2 Are you sure you can apply on F? Doesn’t one need a visa with immigrant intent to file for a green card?
    Jul 18 3
    • Microsoft
      Tier 1

      Microsoft

      BIO
      #1 in Prestige
      Tier 1more
      I don’t think you need a dual intent visa technically to apply, although you could be deported and/or denied re-entry into the US for doing so
      Jul 18
    • Netflix kHwi47
      Your non-immigration intent under an F visa must be shown while applying for the visa. Once you are here after a period of time, your intent may change and that’s allowed. Otherwise it would be illegal for a F person to marry(without a K visa for instance) or apply for a green card, which is not true. You will never be deported if your change of intent is lawful.
      Jul 18
    • Broadcom Ltd. / Eng
      headbanger

      Broadcom Ltd. Eng

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      Intel, Broadcom Ltd.
      headbangermore
      That period of time is 90 days after entering the US on a non immigrant status like F, B, TN etc. After the 90 days have passed, your intent can change.
      Jul 23
  • Microsoft NPEx
    Since it’s an employment based gc can I leave the country and my job and still be eligible? Do I need to be employed when my time comes?
    Jul 18 1
    • Amazon acker
      OP
      I added this as false thing #7 in the OP, as a lot of people seem to mistakenly believe you need to be working for the sponsor at the time you file

      You only need to work for the sponsor AFTER getting your greencard. You can be unemployed and outside the US, or employed by somebody else, it's irrelevant.
      Jul 18
  • I dont think #7 is correct though. This is work-based/sponsored, so you need to be employed during the process. If this is true, how do people leave the company after they get their green cards? You are free once you get the card but not before.
    Jul 18 2
    • Amazon acker
      OP
      You do not need to be employed. You need to accept the proffered employment if you get the greencard. You do not need to be in in the United States nor do you need to be employed by the sponsor before that.

      While it's a common business practice in tech not to sponsor greencards for non employees it's actually a common practice in medicine to sponsor people before they are hired. That's because a nurse or doctor probably isn't board certified to work in the foreign country, the hospital hiring them doesn't have overseas offices, and the applicant doesn't have any status in the US until they get the greencard. In these cases the employee usually signs a commitment to work for the sponsor for 3 to 5 years and enters the US for the first time with their employment greencard.

      There isn't anything legally different about the situation with tech, it's just uncommon in our industry. Arguably it's a better system and maybe we should just shut the whole h1b system down and have everyone immigrate that way.

      I posted this thread just because lots of people have these misconceptions.

      i140 is an OFFER of FUTURE employment.
      Jul 18
    • Google / Eng
      ಕಡಲೆಕಾಯಿ

      Google Eng

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      Acker is right. If this is something you want to do, change you I-140 petition to consular processing instead of AOS. That way you can get the green card abroad before coming back.
      Jul 18
  • New YXst57
    Nice
    Jul 26 0