First Facebook, now Spotify, Apple is making enemies

Facebook DMjj63
Mar 15 221 Comments

https://timetoplayfair.com
spotify really fighting back against Apple

First they block fb from running internal apps
Now this lmao

Any thoughts on the conflict between Apple and Spotify?

Why is Apple trying to make enemies with every company lmao

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TOP 221 Comments
  • Apple / Eng
    iHateFruit

    Apple Eng

    PRE
    Apple
    iHateFruitmore
    Apple is an egotistical bully. That’s why
    Mar 15 9
    • Intel / Eng
      JustBlah

      Intel Eng

      BIO
      logic design Engineer. other interests photography, travelling, hiking, exotic food, tech. travelled 30+ countries and 7 continents.
      JustBlahmore
      Yeah no sympathy for qualcomm
      Mar 20
    • Qualcomm dynasty001
      Its as simple as “Paying for the contract that Apple signed for “ . As much as i hate Qualcomm for paying sub par wages, i am with Qualcomm for standing against Apple.
      Mar 21
    • Shopify
      u73v0e5g28

      Shopify

      PRE
      Apple
      u73v0e5g28more
      Ex-apple employee, this is true.
      Mar 21
    • BYTON / Consultant
      makaveli7

      BYTON Consultant

      PRE
      Republic
      makaveli7more
      Gotta keep that Legal Team busy ;)
      Mar 21
    • Amazon toreador
      If it is so, why not sue in American courts?
      Mar 21
  • Apple isNano=0
    First Facebook? Well not really, free app distributed on platform, no one argues privacy doesn’t exist on their platform.

    Spotify? If you sold a product you don’t own and have to pay royalties, yes every penny counts. They haven’t been on (acquiring new customers) the Apple platform for quite some time and are struggling to profit. Selling they apples platform isn’t their problem, just slim margins.

    But they of course want to paint such a picture. Equal playing field for all devs, they can integrate with watch, Siri, IAP’s but choose not to. Their choice. Apple has to handle distribution, services, updates, fraud, billing systems, taxes, etc.

    If they focused on keeping customers for a year, they get the 85/15 split. Or you can sue the artists/labels and Apple.
    Mar 15 25
    • Apple Osho
      15% or 30% cut applies only to purchase of digital goods, not physical goods like Uber/Lyft rides, food deliveries and amazon goods.
      If it doesn’t apply to digital goods sold in an app, an app can offer itself as free and then offer full functionality with an in-app purchase thereby not paying anything to Apple.
      Mar 20
    • Facebook / Data Jeef Besus
      So then Spotify should sell physical CDs and mail to customers when they want to listen to an album?
      Mar 21
    • Spotify 56hgtYlA
      Without Apple, Spotify would have not been able to reach its current MAU. It also doesn’t look great that Spotify wants to play fair but not pay fair to it’s creators.

      Most of this stems from being a middle person in the game of licensing. This is a business model that doomed unless you can own the content you sell.

      Yest ye forget, the early days of Spotify had an “App Store” inside of its desktop app. How well did that go?
      Mar 21
    • Amazon / Eng sde3
      30% apple tax is the reason you cant buy digital content from amazon apps on ios. Apple also doesnt allow to use certain words like free (on digital content).
      Mar 21
    • Apple OutOfScope
      Everyone wants things for free but that just isn’t how it works. We can argue 30% is too high, but whatever the rate no one wants a share revenue. But the iOS/tvOS/MacOS platform have proven to be very valuable and profitable to developers vs performance on other platforms. As ‘56hgtYIA’ above said, being in a business model as the middle man the margins are tight and it’s tough. I’d be surprised if Apple
      Music was even profitable, music has always just been part of the brand they Steve Jobs built.

      But the platform is even better for the the 70% of apps that are entirely free and no revenue is collected by Apple.

      Spotify can build their own platform, their own marketing and acquire their own customers. Apple is not stopping them.
      Mar 21
  • Anthem 1+
    Spotify isn’t that big to be really called as an enemy anyway
    Mar 15 6
    • LinkedIn / Product gassoup
      "the largest dwarf around"
      Mar 20
    • Anthem / Data avn62
      Cho Chang - I was supporting you buddy 🙁
      Mar 20
    • New / Sales LadyCloser
      Even if Spotify is just a flea, they can do serious damage to Apple
      Mar 20
    • Anthem / Data avn62
      Really? 🤭
      Mar 20
    • Lyft L6_88d
      yes. iTunes used to be a cash cow.
      Mar 21
  • Twitter / Eng
    tremendous

    Twitter Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
    tremendousmore
    Lol this is ridiculous. Facebook sidestepped all rules and trust and deserves to be thrown out of the App Store. Spotify wants free lunches. They’re both lucky to not be banned from the App Store permanently.
    Mar 20 15
    • Google usurper
      Is providing a service to customers really a "free lunch". There's no way Apple deserves 30% for simply hosting an app file on a web server and forcing their phone users to only use that server.

      It baffles me how Apple has changed the Overton Window that much that people think it's normal to give a company 30% of their profits just to give their customers what they want. This is not how any other platform works. iPhone users are screwing themselves over and paying a premium for it.
      Mar 21
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      You should look up correct usage of Overton window. Apple’s been charging 30% because they were first. If developers weren’t willing to pay, you’d have 0 money making apps on the App Store. Google came in second and tried to attract devs with better terms - they did that because they were second, in the temporal sense. If Apple faces an all out revolt, they will reduce their cut - but besides Spotify no one else seems to be complaining. Spotify has the distinct pleasure of being the first service to die at the hands of Apple - I’m sure there will be many more in the future.
      Mar 21
    • Google usurper
      You're conveniently ignoring the entire history of OSes: Windows, macOS, Linux, etc. They are all doing it correctly: the user is allowed to use the device they paid for in the way they want. iOS is the outlier here.
      Mar 21
    • Lol @nozzup if there's no Facebook apps on iPhone, Facebook will go out of business yesterday. Both things probably a good outcome for society.
      Mar 22
    • Doesnt Google also have a 30% tax on app developers?
      Mar 22
  • Apple Osho
    The fact that it takes money to build and maintain compilers, SDKs, APIs and libraries used for building all the shiny apps. Do you think developer make apps from thin air?
    And other operational expenses like app reviewing, server maintenance, developer support.
    Also, Spotify keeps saying 30% Apple tax. But, it is only for those who subscribed through App Store and only for the first year.
    Apple doesn’t get a cent for anyone who subscribes through the website. So, I would imagine the effective cut Apple gets will be less than 5% per iOS Spotify user. Will Spotify provide these metrics to make their case? May be not.
    Mar 20 26
    • Uber bag123
      @Chromeo similar to the privacy laws Facebook makes and breaks them at will. If there is one company that violates user trust and laws it’s Facebook
      Mar 24
    • Uber bag123
      @usurper get your facts right. Apple does not take 30% of Spotify profits. It takes 30% in the first year and drops to 15% from subscriptions cost. Which Google does the same but Spotify has more users on iOS and hence the fight.
      Mar 24
    • Facebook chromeo
      @bag: Wrong. Don’t be so easily manipulated by the media. Learn to think for yourself and consider who the messenger is. It’s not surprising that media is the most disrupted sector by social media and is also the most hostile to where people get their news from. It’s entirely in the interest of NYT and others to tear down FB.

      But I don’t expect the average person to be able to understand the technology and the finer points of the law. So, congratulations, you can include yourself in the company of the geriatric senators who have no idea how Facebook works.
      Mar 25
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      You’re shitting on the media and “average people” but you don’t seem to have any specifics yourself. Are you disagreeing with @bag123? Or are you just trolling. Anyhow you’re not doing Facebook any favors.
      Mar 26
    • Facebook chromeo
      Read the media carefully. Lots of scare tactics over old news. The understanding they have is typified by the senators in Congress. Traditional media played a much greater role in getting Trump elected but somehow FB is the bad man.

      Politicians are grandstanding to pander to the people. Look at what Warren wrote. Lol. What a joke.

      No specifics? Just read all the paranoia in the news. The scare tactics over “special access” we gave Spotify back in 2011/2012. What an absolute joke. Tell me which big tech companies DONT have APIs with special partnerships. The narrative was told to drum up hate and distrust against a competitor in media (namely, FB).

      Apple attacks us for “selling your data” and they tout how much they respect privacy. Yet they put iCloud servers in China — what about human rights? They also sell ads.. the same business we’re in. They also have a platform where you can access user data (ever get the permission dialog to access contact list?).

      Twitter is also in the same position we are in regard to being the medium for news, platform access, subject to manipulation and fake news. I thought you might understand it without me spelling it out for you. Maybe you have some trivial role in the company and have little understand of technology and platforms.
      Mar 26
  • Facebook nozzup
    Apple is out of hardware business growth. Its time to get to software. The only way they can do that is by bullying, cuz lets be honest their software has never been great.
    Mar 20 14
    • General Motors QEmN10
      “Software has never been that great” from our homies who stored a couple passwords in clear text and just had their largest outage in history?
      Mar 24
    • Facebook chromeo
      Does GM even sell cars anymore? How are they even allowed on Blind?
      Mar 24
    • General Motors QEmN10
      Perhaps were not busy patching a rookie security breach or stitching our platforms together before every government on earth regulate the crap out of us so our business model of selling personal information comes to a screeching halt? Or maybe we aren’t scrambling to be productive after misusing our corporate root certificate for our apps. If I had to bet on our future or Facebook I’ll take my chances ;)
      Mar 24
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      This Facebook troll’s made it his mission to turn off every engineer on Blind from working at Facebook by being such a dick. I can confirm not everyone at Facebook is like this troll and most engineers do actually care about user privacy and secure engineering practices.
      Mar 24
    • Facebook chromeo
      We want engineers from Blind? 🤔🤔🤔
      Mar 25
  • LinkedIn / Product gassoup
    Spotify has an issue: they are in a bad business. They don't own the content and don't own the platform. Tough spot to be in.
    Mar 20 6
    • LinkedIn / Product gassoup
      Not true at all, think before you write.
      Mar 20
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      Exactly. Spotify should’ve seen this coming and diversified. Just like Netflix did by getting into the exclusive content business which is difficult for Apple to take out easily.
      Mar 20
    • Amazon / Eng pajamaman
      I know what you mean, that Spotify doesn't have a unique advantage. But Spotify is just like Uber, imagine how crazy it would be if 30% of Uber revenue was going to Apple. Spotify brings artists and their music to people, Uber brings people and their cars to people. It's just that Apple doesn't have it's own ride share service.
      Mar 20
    • LinkedIn / Product gassoup
      It's quite a bit different and I'm pretty shocked you don't see it. Ford can't pull all their cars from Uber overnight but Sony can do the equivalent to Spotify. Uber is also a pretty weak business IMHO but for different reasons. You're trying to compare just in time logistics with media, it's just not a thing.
      Mar 20
    • AIG / Product
      Raging

      AIG Product

      PRE
      Deloitte Digital
      BIO
      Counseling CxOs for AI-first strategy !
      Ragingmore
      $SPOT is a good acquisition target
      Mar 21
  • Apple G218d245
    @Spotify Stop ranting and improve your international content if you really want to compete with Apple Music.
    Mar 16 9
    • Apple soamanhe
      Saavn owns the market in India.
      Mar 20
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      No one’s saying Apple Music won - but it did win over Spotify. Which is saying a lot considering how small the iPhone install base is in india
      Mar 20
    • Booking.com Chuckxit
      Mota bhai (Mukesh Ambani, Saavn's owner) also owns the Indian Prime Minister so good luck competing in India.

      We're actually in process of kicking out Amazon and Walmart with aggressive regulations because Mota bhai showed his interest in starting an ecommerce website.

      Hail Fascism
      Mar 20
    • New kimm
      Isn't paytm and Google pay doing that already?
      Mar 20
    • Google chicken 🍗
      You are funny
      Mar 21
  • Apple TimmyC00k
    I don’t get their first point itself on the website. How is Apple limiting choice for customers? In fact isn’t it creating more choices for the customer, one can either pay through App Store or through Spotify website. The customer pays the same.

    Most of the anti competitive cases in US in the past decade have been focused on whether the competition ends up being good for consumer or not. I don’t see how anything which Apple does hurts the end customer of Spotify.
    Mar 15 2
    • Google / Data FakeDS2
      I guess their argument would be that they can make Spotify less profitable, and then Spotify might shut down. When that happens, there's no choice.
      Mar 20
    • Salesforce SSCU75
      The argument is that Apple doesn't let Spotify tell users that they can upgrade to the paid plan using the website. That hurts customers who don't want to listen to ads.
      Mar 20
  • Adobe NeedleMovr
    Spotify is in the right here. There is a big difference between charging what is right and what is just ridiculous & absurd.
    Mar 20 4
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      So you think 30% is ridiculous and absurd? Do you have data to back your claim? Do you know how much it costs to build the platform, SDK, tools, distribution and market the platform?
      Mar 20
    • Qualcomm HksP46
      I think they should charge a flat fee when a app is downloaded . Why does it matter if it's a 1$ app or a 100$ app ? Would you get charged more for a sofa if you were in a bigger house ??? .
      Mar 20
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      Qualcomm sorry not sorry but your comment makes no sense.
      Mar 20
    • Intuit fertiu5f
      you'd buy a bigger sofa and pay more...
      Mar 20
  • Chase SamanthaS
    Only use MacBook as apple product. Everything else is shit. Expensive and they drain your money.
    Mar 20 10
    • Amazon MrJackpot
      @Qualcomm I don’t see how it’s any different from a premium product like a Bentley, RR, or even something like a Mercedes where options and trim levels add $10k-$30k+ easily. Yet you don’t see people who buy these cars complaining about it.

      What Apple is doing is nothing new; you are paying for the brand. It’s no different from paying $900 for a white T-Shirt with a Gucci logo on it. This is why Android has greater adoption world-wide, as it caters to a more accessible audience while Apple does not.
      Mar 21
    • Qualcomm / R&D
      gWFw78

      Qualcomm R&D

      PRE
      Bendix
      gWFw78more
      @mrjackpot. Agreed, but when they do it, Samsung and Google follows because the market pays. The customer gets screwed in the end. $1000+ phone, really!! This is a mass market product not a Bentley or RR. As for the premium moniker that's debatible. They use inferior modems and throttle the better one to match, that's not premium, they were way late with oled displays and they have lower resolutions, that's not premium, the list goes on. They get away with it due to their walled ecosystem so people pay.
      Mar 21
    • Amazon MrJackpot
      @gWFw78: Agreed. Good points. Unfortunately, customers will never speak with their wallets and will buy whatever these companies put out. Do you have a proposed solution?
      Mar 21
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      “All Apple cares about is increasing revenue and decreasing cost” - @Qualcomm bro states the introductory sentence of Business 101
      Mar 21
    • Google Methane
      The MacBook is shit too. $400 (Apple Care expired) to replace a battery because the battery is soldered to the case? That's absurd.
      Mar 21
  • Square / Eng SQ
    Fb deserved to have internal apps be blocked for being dumb enough to circumvent enterprise app distribution agreement and signing it with the same cert you used for internal apps. Smart move.

    Spotify sounds like a spoiled kid. No one would have used it without Apple store. It wouldn't even exist today.
    Mar 20 9
    • Twitter / Eng
      tremendous

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, LinkedIn, Google
      tremendousmore
      Mar 21
    • Facebook uRGX22
      > The research app was a giant piece of spyware that monitored children's phone usage and would never have passed app store review.

      My gosh, guys you’re so brainwashed, I can’t believe my eyes.

      ——

      @tremendous yes, that’s super related to our conversation.
      Mar 21
    • Google chicken 🍗
      Wut
      Mar 21
    • Facebook uRGX22
      Weird things happening. Media can make any company look evil in just a few months.
      That’s very sad to observe how people blindly follow those techcrunch articles without doing even a little piece of their own research.
      Though, it’s easy to understand as well. We consume information very fast nowadays an it’s very easy to become brainwashed even if you think you’re smart. We just don’t have enough time to dig into each of those news.
      Mar 21
    • Square / Eng SQ
      What's untrue? That Facebook distributed an app through third parties to non-employees? That 5% of Facebook Research users were minors? That the app required root certificate? That the app monitored what the device was doing and transmitted that information to Facebook? That Facebook used the same code for an app that was banned because of privacy concerns?

      Or that asking for root permissions for a phone is a no no for the app review process? And that Facebook intentionally released their app through shady third parties and outside the app store because they knew it wasn't allowed?
      Mar 21
  • New tRem0lo
    No one forced Spotify to build anything for iOS, it's their own choice. Apple owns the platform, and can do whatever they think is better for their business. You don't like their rules and fees, then don't use it. Spotify is just a whiner who can't make their business profitable, so they just choose to blame the others. Apple doesn't owe Spotify nor any other app developer anything.
    Mar 20 7
    • Google LyLs67
      You are quite the idiot who like paying higher prices and getting locked in into monopolies
      Mar 21
    • Amazon toreador
      Apple is far from a monopoly: on mobile phone market, laptops hardware, OSs, services. Their house – their rules.
      Mar 21
    • Spotify 56hgtYlA
      Europe also doesn’t listen to Google’s nonsense as the latest fine has shown
      Mar 21
    • Google LyLs67
      I don't speak for google which is a tax on any activity on the internet. But it is way less evil than Apple
      Mar 21
    • New .A.
      @LyLs67 Is it out of courtesy to call people idiots in Europe?
      Mar 21
  • Uber bag123
    Apple is not making enemies rather it’s asking people to follow rules. 1. Facebook violated the rules of engagement with Apple. Apple notified them and blocked their certification till they fixed it. What did Facebook did to TUNE (mobile measurement company)? Tune violated and till date they are blocked on Facebook. Come one give me a break Facebook is a fucked up company and they violate user privacy everyday every second. Coming to Spotify, Rules are same for everyone Apple and Google take 15-30% from all subscriptions that occurred on their platform. If Spotify doesn’t like Apple then it’s better for them to take off app, will they do that? No they want the affluent users of iOS. Bottom line Fuck Facebook, Fuck EU and Fuck Spotify.
    Mar 20 7
    • Microsoft FFSake
      Couldn’t give lesser of a fuck about what you say here. Was just concerned that you get at least as much sex life as you wished to FB, EU and Spotify. So fuck you
      Mar 20
    • Uber bag123
      You didn’t give a fuck and yet you responded that speaks about your pathetic fucked up life. Seems your wife has a better sex life banging others than you hence your first comment about sex life. Go get a life or go to a hooker. If you can’t get it up then rot in a hole.
      Mar 20
    • Microsoft FFSake
      Wow, a bully in the class. So many assumptions (that I have a wife, no sex life etc.), while my statement was an innocent wish for you to get as little as you wish to other entities. And you speak to your mother with that tongue? Pathetic human being you are.
      Mar 21
    • Uber bag123
      You are the one who brought the sex thing into the mix you fuckin moron. People who don’t have proper data lean on wife, mother, and sex etc. You made a innocent statement? Stop eating your own shit and get the fuck out of discussion if you don’t have complete information and cannot contribute in qualitative way.
      Mar 21
    • Microsoft FFSake
      Dude you are funny. Word “fuck” has some relationship to word “sex”. If you would like to have a meaningful discussion, avoid words like “fuck” (no need to thank me - that is a free advice). This being said - you sound like a very aggressive dude. I bet you need to blow it off somewhere. A good place is a boxing ring (or other contact sports). I can be your sparring partner if you wish.
      Mar 21
  • LinkedIn mtndew💚
    I checked the website and is so European I love it
    Mar 15 0
  • Apple Y0ungH3art
    Apple is amazing, you guys.
    Mar 20 2
    • Oracle
      blindrev12

      Oracle

      PRE
      Amazon, Microsoft, 500 Startups
      blindrev12more
      What you smoking- it’s been my worst employer and I have been at 3fang
      Mar 20
    • Apple
      mtxs83

      Apple

      PRE
      Oracle, Huawei
      mtxs83more
      Moved from faang to oracle? What do you smoke?
      Mar 21
  • Amazon cotxyoc
    People here seem to be arguing about what % it charges. I don’t see why that is relevant ...

    The point the website is trying to make is that the restrictions imposed on Spotify by apple are different than those it imposes on other apps.this is anti-competitive and I see why.

    It is perfectly fine for apple to charge everyone more and take advantage of the fact that they own the platform. And apple is totally ok in charging what is needed to run its severs and what not.

    To say that Spotify would be no where if App Store didn’t exist is true, but that is true for all apps that run on apple. Doesn’t justify discriminatory pricing only for Spotify.

    So, why is Spotify wrong here?
    Mar 20 2
    • Amazon toreador
      Everyone IS charged the same. Spotify just doesn’t want to pay
      Mar 21
    • Spotify / Eng VnEB34
      You're missing two keywords: "Apple Music"
      Mar 25
  • Amazon pppoooo
    lmao
    Mar 20 2
  • New / Eng
    GardenBish

    New Eng

    PRE
    Google
    GardenBishmore
    I mean wasn't fb misusing the app store
    Mar 20 4
    • Uber bag123
      Yes, Facebook and the MZ mofo was misusing the certificates.
      Mar 20
    • Facebook uRGX22
      No, they did not misuse the certificates. You’re misinformed.
      Mar 21
    • Uber bag123
      When was the last time Facebook agreed to any misdeeds? Facebook violated the Enterprise licenses of App Store policy. Go read the entire story and stop believing the BS from Mark and Sheryl. I would be happy If Apple ki kicks Facebook out for good.
      Mar 21
    • Facebook uRGX22
      I did, go read yourself and stop believing this media BS.
      Mar 21
  • Visa / Other Jonny55
    Apple also doesn’t allow the Spotify app to be downloaded to the Apple Watch.
    Mar 21 1