Gender Pay Gap

Deloitte / Other ParPaper
Feb 17, 2018 39 Comments

UK companies are now required to publish their gender pay gap and bonus gap.

Deloitte’s mean gender pay gap is 18.2%, and the firm’s mean gender bonus gap is a whopping 50.9%. It’s ethnicity pay gap is 12.9% and the ethnicity bonus gap is 41.9%.

What’s your company’s pay gap? If they’re in the UK, it should be publicly available now.

https://www.accountancylive.com/deloitte-gender-pay-gap-figures-show-bonus-disparity

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TOP 39 Comments
  • Amazon / Eng
    Hooliganss

    Amazon Eng

    BIO
    Engineer at AWS
    Hooliganssmore
    They should also be required to publish average number of work hours weekly breakdown by gender and race. Also show the breakdown of those that negotiate, as well as those that actively seek out promotions. Would be interested to see all of this data.
    Feb 17, 2018 5
    • Microsoft Maui
      Agreed. The hysteria over the pay gap has many data points outside of gender. Could it be possible that men and woman are different? That they approach their careers from different perspectives? I am cool with having the conversation and drawing awareness to this so we can have a discussion, but not when the other side calls you sexist for even suggesting there might be other reasons.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Google / Eng
      lena33

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Salesforce
      lena33more
      Agree for including hours working into stats. However how would you measure that? Long hours or answering email in the evening doesn't mean somebody is doing better work than with short hours and more productive.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      Engineer at AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      Yup, totally agree with you. But, if we can show equivalent amounts progress is being made by each gender, but women put in 3/4 of the time, the we can say “hey, women are far more efficient than men, what can we do to improve the efficiency of men?”. It doesn’t always have to be slanted against women.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Microsoft Maui
      “If we can show”. Agreed.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      Engineer at AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      Look to the data, no to emotion. Equal opportunity, not outcome.
      Feb 17, 2018
  • Undisclosed / Sales Ohana Man
    I'm not surprised women are paid less. At college 90% of my engineering classmates were male - primarily because we were poor and knew we would need jobs. We regularly spent our nights at the lab. Meanwhile women dominated softer, easier majors like psychology or marketing and could spend their nights watching bad TV or partying. Fast forward in time and is it really any surprise men make more? I find it offensive to blame this on discrimination and sad that the poor and middle class guys who worked their way up are the ones who end up as real victims of these sexist "equality" campaigns.
    Feb 17, 2018 4
    • Groupon rahull
      I just said something similar on another thread and I was called sexist
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Undisclosed / Sales Ohana Man
      Because these people don't want an objective discussion. They want to further their agenda. "Sexist" is just a way to shut down real discussion and make others afraid to speak out.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      Engineer at AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      To be fair, I was in a similar situation, and there were a number of men that were in majors like communication, psychology and marketing. The gender ratio in communication was not close to the gender ratio you might find in CS, EE, CE.

      But I agree with your premise.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Undisclosed S1thL0rd
      While I agree with parts of your message, we still see a pay gap at the same level of seniority and same position even within the same company. To some extent it's definitely down to men being better negotiators when it comes to salary, but there's more to it for sure. Oh and by the way just because another major results in less salary it may not be any less difficult, it just means it's less in need by the economy or simply oversupplied. Which is definitely a STEM issue in general ... not sexy enough.
      Feb 18, 2018
  • Yahoo / Product Truth
    “Deloitte says its pay and bonus gaps are due to the lower proportion of women holding the firm’s most senior roles, an issue that it is working hard to address.”

    I really want to understand what "working hard to address" means..

    Does it mean that qualified and deserving men will now be skipped for promotions? Does it mean new senior leadership roles will only seek female candidates?

    What matters is to make sure there is no bias in hiring, promotions, salary due to gender, race, etc. It shouldn't mean that you stop promoting based on merit.

    Imagine that following "the hard work" they put in to address this issue, they hired a bunch of very talented female senior leaders. Suddenly, there is a pay gap to Indian men, does it mean that you now skip on a great female hire to balance the ratio??

    This is the obsured logical conclusion of this type of blind obsession with outcome.
    Feb 17, 2018 2
    • Groupon rahull
      Well said
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Google kerne
      That's exactly what it means. Now that these stats are public, the gap will be closed regardless of merit. Even though the stats don't take into account a host of factors.

      Cue a ton of incompetent women in job roles coming up. Going to make themselves and the competent women look bad. While breaking the free market in the process.
      Feb 17, 2018
  • Undisclosed droppa
    Fake news. It's mentioned in the article that this is almost entirely explained away by more men in senior management.
    Feb 17, 2018 1
    • Microsoft richardhea
      That’s not an explanation, just rephrasing.
      🍆
      Feb 17, 2018
  • Deloitte / Other ParPaper
    OP
    Nothing like data on gender to get your knickers in a twist, eh gentlemen?
    Feb 17, 2018 2
    • Undisclosed / Sales Ohana Man
      We'd love to have a real conversation about the data, but we can't without women breaking down, crying, and trying to get us fired, so we are stuck discussing it here anonymously.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Yahoo / Product Truth
      Knickers in a twist? Why not have an honest conversation and respond to my comment. Are you not worried about how this can play out in the future? if we move away from merit based hiring?

      Do you think the only issue in the is gap and leadership discrepancy is only solved via hiring and at other levels of society like education, female role models, nurture culture valuing men as parents , etc.

      Seems like you individually (let's not generalize 5 comments to all men and women) get you knickers in a twist when you get any feedback that doesn't repeat your narrative.
      Feb 17, 2018
  • Pivotal XyWA28
    There is no pay gap
    Feb 24, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng
    Hooliganss

    Amazon Eng

    BIO
    Engineer at AWS
    Hooliganssmore
    OP, I see that your role at Deloitte is “other”. Can I ask why you didn’t choose an Eng role?
    Feb 17, 2018 5
    • Deloitte / Other ParPaper
      OP
      Well... I suppose because I’m not an engineer.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      Engineer at AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      Neither was I at one point. Just wondering why you chose the direction you did.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Deloitte / Other ParPaper
      OP
      I’m a scientist. I just always loved it. I started in a research lab, and later moved into the business side.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      Engineer at AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      Nice! Cool to hear! The “other” role is super vague so I like to hear what people do.
      Feb 17, 2018
    • Deloitte / Other ParPaper
      OP
      I’m not in marketing or HR, if that’s what you were thinking? If so, I understand the point that if women tend to pursue those roles, they’ll never be paid equally.
      Feb 17, 2018
  • Undisclosed qTXq04
    So when they hired so many men there must have been a large portion of incompetent ones. Saying they will hire incompetent women is dumb, companies will interview properly and hire good ones. Plus there's a study out there that says companies run by women are going better.
    Feb 18, 2018 3
    • Undisclosed / Eng -l
      Just curious, which companies were included in this study? Enron vs Yahoo?
      Feb 18, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      Engineer at AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      Please cite.
      Feb 18, 2018
    • Yahoo / Product Truth
      Strawman argument. I don't see a single comment that makes the case they will hire incompetent women.

      The risk of course is hiring a competent women instead of a more competent man that happened to interview for the same position.
      Feb 18, 2018
  • Pinterest cervantes
    Most gender pay gap studies do NOT conduct their research based on comparable seniority levels, i.e. not for the same job. They compare ALL men vs ALL women. I challenge everyone reading this to link to a study that found pay gap between men and women for the SAME job, which was significantly higher than the gap among men themselves. I have a feeling the results of that study won’t be so newsworthy.

    Scientifically speaking the studies which constitute the bulk of media coverage are statistical hogwash. The one and only conclusion that can be drawn by anyone with half a brain and a high school diploma from such studies is: “Men occupy a higher number of well-paid jobs than women.” Wow. Sensational.

    Even if we put these nonsense studies aside and blindly buy into the unsupported claim that women get paid significantly less than men for the SAME job, we would have to assume that all men get paid equally for the same job.

    Let me take the liberty to demonstrate how easy it can be to bs with statistics, without even using any actual data but still being factually correct:

    Half of all men get paid less than the other half for the same job. That’s an immutable fact in the private sector. So half of all men are statistically underpaid. Let’s call them U-men. And the other half is statistically speaking overpaid. Let’s call them O-men (no pun intended). So I call all men to find out the median salary for your level to see if you’re a U-man or an O-man. If you’re a U-man, then join the U-men movement and fight for equal pay!

    The real problem at hand is not really about equal pay, but rather how easy it is to dupe the public with bogus statistical claims and stamp anyone and everyone calling their bs as “somethingist”. “Sexist” being the keyword in this case.

    The fact that such obviously bogus claims make it to the mainstream shows that what we really need is to educate the public on statistics. Lesson One being: Correlation does NOT equal causation for fox sake! No matter how sensational and bias-confirming it looks.
    Feb 21, 2018 1
    • Pinterest cervantes
      And how stupid do people think corporations are that in the name of sexism they overpay 20% to a group of people for the exact same skillset just because they have a pair of balls?

      And how stupid do they think women are that they don’t even bother to check the salary range for the job their applying for and take the first number thrown at them.

      It’s false assumptions that killed the cat. Not curiosity.
      Feb 21, 2018
  • Undisclosed qTXq04
    Pinterest it's pretty easy to do the analysis based on levels, so it doesn't make sense of companies are not doing it that way. Why would they want to make it look like they have a pay gap issue in the first place 🤔
    Feb 24, 2018 1
    • Pinterest cervantes
      Apparently they did. And found no gender pay gap. I quote the article:

      “Deloitte’s mean pay gap is 18.2%, while the firm’s mean bonus gap is 50.9%. [...]
      Deloitte says its pay and bonus gaps are due to the lower proportion of women holding the firm’s most senior roles, an issue that it is working hard to address. Once this structural issue is removed, the Deloitte mean pay gap reduces to around 2.5%, the firm says.”

      Yes. 2.5%. That’s the actual gender pay gap for the same job in this particular case -and probably also in many other cases for reasons discussed in previous posts. So the headlines should have read: “No significant gender pay gap found for the same job”. Or “Men hold more higher-level positions than women”. Neither of which would have warranted any attention.

      So why did these companies publish these not-so-newsworthy reports? The article says companies of a certain size in the UK are now required to do so.

      It reminds me of the expression: “to look for a calf under an ox.”
      Feb 26, 2018
  • Undisclosed qTXq04
    Where do you find this for your company?
    Feb 18, 2018 1
    • Deloitte / Other ParPaper
      OP
      In the UK, large employers are now required to publish pay gap data, by law, based on a specific formula set by parliament. If your company is in the UK, it should be published on their website.
      Feb 22, 2018
  • Undisclosed qTXq04
    In fact analysis isn't even needed, for the companies that have workday (Google included - and I point this out because they said there wasn't a way to pull this data) you can easily create a report in less than five minutes with this data. Now the u and one stuff that's another story and pointless to compare since the analysis is in between genders.
    Feb 24, 2018 0
  • Amazon keygen
    https://youtu.be/Xg2psply4no - explains what the gap is, what can and what cannot be done with it
    Feb 21, 2018 0
  • Undisclosed / Sales Ohana Man
    Agree. Well said.
    Feb 17, 2018 0

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