Politics

IAF command is inept

Amazon zxyu23
Mar 2

Who in IAF thought it was sensible to send that 1970's MiG anywhere near Pakistani air defence?

India has modern, up to date Sukhoi's (from 2002) that are meant to be the front line fighter and the role for that 1970's era MiG is really only at best second line defence. It should only operate deep inside Indian territory where it can be supported by and coordinate with friendly ground based radar and air defence.

Putting that MiG forward and letting it face modern air defence systems was a terrible blunder. 1970's MiG vs modern air defence is not a contest, the outcome is very certain. Only the Su's should be forward deployed like that, they are in fact purpose built for that role whereas the MiG had no chance.

Major error in planning by IAF.

When the rah rah "he's my hero" jingoism dies down Indians should ask some serious questions about how it is that IAF command is so inept as to allow that ancient plane anywhere near the Pakistan border when IAF do have much more modern aircraft that are purpose built for that role.

This really wasn't bad luck on the battlefield. This was ineptitude at the highest levels in IAF.

Pakistani pilots seem to have baited him into flying into the range of an anti air missile system. This speaks to great planning and excellent flying on the Pakistani side versus inept planning and poor flying on the Indian side. Indians should ask why.

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  • F5 Networks dontalk2me
    I also think we should not say Indian attack, rather we should call it Modi attack who is doing it to win elections.
    Mar 221
    • Cognizant msquare
      F5 - of course those three are not different as well.
      Mar 2
    • LinkedIn ynCh06
      @F5 you definitely must be indian muzzi who study eat and earn in India but take sides with Pak. I have many muzzi friends in india who praise middle east and Pak and hate US for attacking them but took first opportunity to run towards US for earning dollars.
      Mar 2
    • F5 Networks dontalk2me
      You’re just rambling LinkedIn. Sometimes it’s fine to shut up rather saying stupid stuff
      Mar 2
    • Facebook seven7777
      Guys pls don’t attack F5 on basis of his/her alleged religion/nationality.
      Mar 2
    • Google ovBk62
      Yes, it's nothing to do with his nationality. He's just a bit silly or he's just trolling. Don't waste your time.
      Mar 2
    • Nokia kindof
      Yeah, either child and/or immature
      Mar 2
    • Facebook / Other
      Janitorque

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      Janitorquemore
      Damn, why all the hate by Indian Hindus for Indian Muslims? I'd become anti-national if I were subjected to that constantly. And to think these idiots are anti-Trump without any hint of irony.
      Mar 3
    • F5 Networks dontalk2me
      I agree @Facebook. They are bunch of village bigots and blindly follow media. Dumb nationalist. I can’t even tell them to eat shit because that will be cannibalism for these twats.
      Mar 3
    • Facebook / Other
      Janitorque

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      Janitorquemore
      Dumb nationalism is fine by me as long as they recognize that Indian Muslims are as much part of the nation.
      Mar 3
    • Facebook seven7777
      F5, I don’t think they should criticize you for your religion, but they should criticize you for being a fucking moron.
      Mar 3
  • Microsoft Duxe82
    I still don’t understand what India achieved after all this melodrama. The killers of 40 cprf jawans are still not punished. Pakistan still didn’t handover the terrorists like Masoor, Hafeez to India. Despite of all this, Indians were celebrating like a World Cup victory.
    Mar 215
    • Microsoft Duxe82
      You know what, I just farted and that killed 4 pakistani terrorists. Don’t you dare to ask for evidence !!!
      Mar 2
    • Facebook seven7777
      The whole world is fed up with the Pak govt’s bullshit
      Mar 2
    • LinkedIn ynCh06
      When someone from your family will die in terror strikes than you people will stop taking sides with Pak. India has put fear in mind of Pakistan by ordering strikes for future attacks. If you can't understand this basic stuff then you need some serious help.
      Mar 2
    • Microsoft Duxe82
      @seven7777, stop you BS and talk logical. I have high regards for Facebook engineers but your foolish justifications will change that opinion.
      Mar 2
    • Rubrik harvest25
      I don't think Pakistan orderd strikes at all. I believe it is home grown terrorism. I agree that it is adequately supported by ZeM, based in Pakistan. ISI and some in Pakistan Army might have supported it and might have made it possible. But, bombing on barren land won't discourage either.
      Mar 2
    • Rubrik harvest25
      I do hold Pakistan government for their complecency and their Army/ISI for their implicit support.
      Mar 2
    • Microsoft Duxe82
      @ynCh06, be logical. No one is on Pakistan’s side. That whole country is a terrorists-factory. Since Pak retaliated next day, your point of Pak getting scared is wrong. In fact, as soon the pilot returned to India, there was another terrorist attack in Kashmir which killed four officers. You just got fooled by Modi.
      Mar 2
    • Google ovBk62
      Some italian journalist wrote an article on first post saying that around 30-40 people died. I think some Indian agency mentioned 20ish too, so they're in the same ballpark.
      Mar 2
    • Microsoft eThi53
      Some Italian journalist mentioned that without having any evidence.. unless we see real pictures all this ll b just claims. Most international news are showing pictorial evidence that we missed the target by 1km. So whom should I believe?
      https://graphics.reuters.com/INDIA-KASHMIR/010090XM162/index.html

      I agree that it's good that we showed intent to hurt back this time. But we need to prove military capability to do so as well. We fell well short of that in this whole exchange. And because of lack of significant impact there was no deterrence on pak to not repeat.
      Mar 2
    • Microsoft Duxe82
      Tc 215,L64
      Mar 3
  • Google drains
    Remember the moment you ask the question, you will be labelled as antinational, Pro Pakistan etc. That's what we have come down to.
    Mar 20
  • Microsoft eThi53
    Indian here, this whole thing was bad PR for India's military capability. We we're in bubble about our Superioty over Pak, at least that has got a reality check.
    True that Modi showed intent but the military capability of india fell quiet short of meeting the expectation.
    Plus once and for all it's settled that Indian Media has zero credibility.
    Mar 23
    • Wells Fargo / ITaggie
      Indian media is a STD ridden whore.
      Mar 2
    • Google JohnMcPop2
      Not an Indian, but gotta hand it to IAF.

      1. They penetrated 60kms without pak realizing. India had good intentions and only targeted camp sites. They could've done too much damage. 60kms is serious.

      2. Pak had F16s and India used Mig21 bison and actually shot one down. That's serious skill.

      3. It's more about world politics and Pak got a creampie on it's face. Utter disappointment. World supported India.
      Mar 2
    • F5 Networks dontalk2me
      Mar 2
  • Microsoft Duxe82
    Only two people got benefitted the most out of this - Modi and Imran Khan. Modi gained his popularity back successfully distracting people from the issues like jobs, economy. Since Pak too retaliated and captured Indian pilot. Imran Khan gained more popularity, then he talked about peace and gave the pilot back. Emerged as more matured leader. People from the both countries got fooled by the war mongers and media.
    Mar 22
    • New qWeRA12
      Do you think there is any way that a party in power not benefit by fighting back?
      Mar 2
    • Cognizant msquare
      Well in that case he deserves that benefit. I can't think of an alternate leader who would have responded to such terror attack, as agressively.
      Mar 2
  • Booking.com B.ShowPony
    My feelings exactly. What the fuck are those Su30MKIs for?
    Mar 20
  • Google JohnMcPop2
    I've been following this.

    1. India has limited Sukhois. Why? They buy them. Don't manufacture themselves. About 300 so Sukhois are owned by India. It wasn't a war situation.

    2. Those Mig21 Bisons are recently upgraded. So although, 3rd gen they can somewhat compete with F16s.

    3. In a dogfight, it's more about the skills of the pilot. Look at what happened during a 2005 training exercise between India and Russia.

    4. India didn't know those were F16s, until after 2 days or so.
    Mar 214
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      It's also unclear whether any other planes were shot down. Pakistan denies losing any planes and says it shot down two. India initially denied losing any planes, now admits it lost one, and claims it shot down one.

      If all claims are true then this was 2 kills for Pakistan and 1 kill for India, and the Pakistani advantage seems to be due to IAF putting MiGs where they shouldn't have been, a strategic error and a planning mistake that resulted in a pilot being captured, which then let Pakistan parade him on TV and put India at a political disadvantage.

      This WAS a war situation. Whatever you want to call it militaries engaged in intentional cross border operations in which soldiers were killed.
      Mar 2
    • Google JohnMcPop2
      Well, come on. Nobody in the world believes Pak.

      Most idiotic bunch. They say stupid and ret@rded things.
      Mar 2
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      India was caught lying too, denying it lost any planes until Pakistan paraded their pilot on TV, so neither side is believable. India also seems to have been lying about its success in hitting camps.
      Mar 2
    • Google JohnMcPop2
      Nah, somehow India seems more credible.
      At least they admitted, instead of denying their own officers like Pak did in Kargil.

      India has the world on their side.
      The French openly supported India for example. China didn't step in to save Paks ass, like always.
      Mar 2
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      India may seem more credible in these claims to Indians but to the rest of us (I am not Asian) both sides seem to be liars.
      Mar 2
    • Google JohnMcPop2
      I believe India. More credible side. Dunno why? But get a positive vibe.
      Mar 2
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      Are you Indian? Denying their plane was shot down only to have their pilot paraded on TV didn't earn my trust.
      Mar 2
    • Google JohnMcPop2
      American.

      The point is they got their pilot back and everyone thinks it's due to US pressure.
      Win for India and Modi.

      They didn't blatantly deny, they said they have no info yet. Then accepted it.

      To parade the guy, was immature and stupid move from Pak, ignoring Geneva convention. Their international relations took a further nosedive. It's what an immature street thug would do take off his pants and shout "see I've a bigger d*ck".
      Mar 2
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      I actually think Pakistan came off looking like the more rational actor here, returning the pilot showing restraint on their counter.

      By the way I have never heard anyone but Indians call Pakistan "Pak". Are you Indian American?
      Mar 2
    • Google JohnMcPop2
      Kid, I'm more famous on blind than you know.

      Go dig up my previous posts. They have all the info you asked for.
      Mar 2
  • Is there proof of destroying the terror site or destroying an F16
    Mar 219
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      I've never been to Pakistan and only been to India once for work.

      Why do you think Pakistan has F fighters while India has MiG's and Su's?

      Militarily the US is much more closely allied with Pakistan even if economically it has better ties with India.

      The answer is Afghanistan, all the way back to when Russia invaded there and the US cooperated with Pakistan to fuck them up.

      Pakistan has been kind of a shit ally, but it's still an ally, and still cooperates more closely with the US military than India does, and the US still needs their help to fight the Taliban.
      Mar 2
    • Google 576788
      It's not military relationship. They have around 80 F16s (minus 1), with a bunch of restrictions (can't be used for agression etc).

      It's like throwing the dog a bone.
      Mar 2
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      Yes it's actually a military relationship, the US has a signed military agreement with Pakistan.

      It goes waaaay back.

      In the 1950's Pakistan was hardline against communism while India cozied up to Russia. Throughout the whole cold war India was seen as a Russian ally so the US allied closely with Pakistan to counter it.

      It's only much more recently (tech economy era) that India has tried to develop warmer relationships with the West but it's still pretty cozy with Russia.

      Pakistan may be a shitty ally, but it's an ally, and it's cooperating militarily with the US in Afghanistan.

      The US is not going to fuck itself over in Afghanistan just so Modi can rile up his nationalist base in advance of an election that was otherwise going to be fought on a slowing economy.
      Mar 2
    • Google 576788
      After internet boom in 2000s, the dynamics has changed.

      India is a country of 1.3 billion people and a huge number of them speak English. It's like the oil of future. US cannot put that relation at risk. It's not good for US economy.

      Pak will always be collateral damage. India will get preference.
      Mar 2
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      The dynamic has changed in that India has developed economic ties with the US, but military ties with Pakistan are much stronger and military nobody trusts India not to go running back to Russia, with which India still has stronger military ties than with the US.

      Afghanistan is a thing. Lots of US soldiers will die if the US alliance with Pakistan doesn't endure. No way the US jeopardizes its own interests in Afghanistan to salvage Modi's reputation. You really think that Trump is willing to let Americans die on his watch just so Modi can play tough guy?

      I guarantee you that Modi also got a strong message to back the fuck down, and Pakistan got asked to release the soldier as a good will gesture between allies.

      You really don't understand the dynamic. Afghanistan matters a lot more to the US than the h1b visa program. In fact Trump would likely be happy to see less Indian consulting. Goes with his Buy American outlook.

      And while Indians may claim to be the oil of the future, superpower by 2020, etc, outside of India nobody really takes that seriously.
      Mar 3
    • Google 576788
      They just released the name of pak pilot flying F16, which was taken down. (India today is the site)

      So much for honesty? Shameless pak, really. Not acknowledging it's own soldiers.

      Also, an audio is leaked putting air strike casualties at 50. Italian journalists confirmed.
      Mar 3
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      Link to a non Indian (ie, credible) source?
      Mar 3
    • Google that makes a lot of sense on why Pakistan said they captured two Indian pilots and one was in hospital .: he was from Pakistan !! Lol . Respect to the Indian pilot taking down an f-16 from an almost outdated mig-21
      Mar 3
    • Google 576788
      @Amazon
      1. You really think it's easy to spin up a fake identity, claiming to be paf pilot? The name is there. Where's that person right now?

      2. Audio is tweeted by a pak journalist in exile.
      Mar 3
    • Amazon zxyu23
      OP
      So do you have a non Indian source?

      Neither India nor its media have been very credible throughout this incident.
      Mar 3

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