Who in IAF thought it was sensible to send that 1970's MiG anywhere near Pakistani air defence?
India has modern, up to date Sukhoi's (from 2002) that are meant to be the front line fighter and the role for that 1970's era MiG is really only at best second line defence. It should only operate deep inside Indian territory where it can be supported by and coordinate with friendly ground based radar and air defence.
Putting that MiG forward and letting it face modern air defence systems was a terrible blunder. 1970's MiG vs modern air defence is not a contest, the outcome is very certain. Only the Su's should be forward deployed like that, they are in fact purpose built for that role whereas the MiG had no chance.
Major error in planning by IAF.
When the rah rah "he's my hero" jingoism dies down Indians should ask some serious questions about how it is that IAF command is so inept as to allow that ancient plane anywhere near the Pakistan border when IAF do have much more modern aircraft that are purpose built for that role.
This really wasn't bad luck on the battlefield. This was ineptitude at the highest levels in IAF.
Pakistani pilots seem to have baited him into flying into the range of an anti air missile system. This speaks to great planning and excellent flying on the Pakistani side versus inept planning and poor flying on the Indian side. Indians should ask why.
- F5 Networks dontalk2meI also think we should not say Indian attack, rather we should call it Modi attack who is doing it to win elections.
- I still don’t understand what India achieved after all this melodrama. The killers of 40 cprf jawans are still not punished. Pakistan still didn’t handover the terrorists like Masoor, Hafeez to India. Despite of all this, Indians were celebrating like a World Cup victory.
- I don't think Pakistan orderd strikes at all. I believe it is home grown terrorism. I agree that it is adequately supported by ZeM, based in Pakistan. ISI and some in Pakistan Army might have supported it and might have made it possible. But, bombing on barren land won't discourage either.
- @ynCh06, be logical. No one is on Pakistan’s side. That whole country is a terrorists-factory. Since Pak retaliated next day, your point of Pak getting scared is wrong. In fact, as soon the pilot returned to India, there was another terrorist attack in Kashmir which killed four officers. You just got fooled by Modi.
- Some Italian journalist mentioned that without having any evidence.. unless we see real pictures all this ll b just claims. Most international news are showing pictorial evidence that we missed the target by 1km. So whom should I believe?
I agree that it's good that we showed intent to hurt back this time. But we need to prove military capability to do so as well. We fell well short of that in this whole exchange. And because of lack of significant impact there was no deterrence on pak to not repeat.
- Indian here, this whole thing was bad PR for India's military capability. We we're in bubble about our Superioty over Pak, at least that has got a reality check.
True that Modi showed intent but the military capability of india fell quiet short of meeting the expectation.
Plus once and for all it's settled that Indian Media has zero credibility.
- Not an Indian, but gotta hand it to IAF.
1. They penetrated 60kms without pak realizing. India had good intentions and only targeted camp sites. They could've done too much damage. 60kms is serious.
2. Pak had F16s and India used Mig21 bison and actually shot one down. That's serious skill.
3. It's more about world politics and Pak got a creampie on it's face. Utter disappointment. World supported India.Mar 24
- Only two people got benefitted the most out of this - Modi and Imran Khan. Modi gained his popularity back successfully distracting people from the issues like jobs, economy. Since Pak too retaliated and captured Indian pilot. Imran Khan gained more popularity, then he talked about peace and gave the pilot back. Emerged as more matured leader. People from the both countries got fooled by the war mongers and media.
- I've been following this.
1. India has limited Sukhois. Why? They buy them. Don't manufacture themselves. About 300 so Sukhois are owned by India. It wasn't a war situation.
2. Those Mig21 Bisons are recently upgraded. So although, 3rd gen they can somewhat compete with F16s.
3. In a dogfight, it's more about the skills of the pilot. Look at what happened during a 2005 training exercise between India and Russia.
4. India didn't know those were F16s, until after 2 days or so.
- It's also unclear whether any other planes were shot down. Pakistan denies losing any planes and says it shot down two. India initially denied losing any planes, now admits it lost one, and claims it shot down one.
If all claims are true then this was 2 kills for Pakistan and 1 kill for India, and the Pakistani advantage seems to be due to IAF putting MiGs where they shouldn't have been, a strategic error and a planning mistake that resulted in a pilot being captured, which then let Pakistan parade him on TV and put India at a political disadvantage.
This WAS a war situation. Whatever you want to call it militaries engaged in intentional cross border operations in which soldiers were killed.
The point is they got their pilot back and everyone thinks it's due to US pressure.
Win for India and Modi.
They didn't blatantly deny, they said they have no info yet. Then accepted it.
To parade the guy, was immature and stupid move from Pak, ignoring Geneva convention. Their international relations took a further nosedive. It's what an immature street thug would do take off his pants and shout "see I've a bigger d*ck".
- I've never been to Pakistan and only been to India once for work.
Why do you think Pakistan has F fighters while India has MiG's and Su's?
Militarily the US is much more closely allied with Pakistan even if economically it has better ties with India.
The answer is Afghanistan, all the way back to when Russia invaded there and the US cooperated with Pakistan to fuck them up.
Pakistan has been kind of a shit ally, but it's still an ally, and still cooperates more closely with the US military than India does, and the US still needs their help to fight the Taliban.
- Yes it's actually a military relationship, the US has a signed military agreement with Pakistan.
It goes waaaay back.
In the 1950's Pakistan was hardline against communism while India cozied up to Russia. Throughout the whole cold war India was seen as a Russian ally so the US allied closely with Pakistan to counter it.
It's only much more recently (tech economy era) that India has tried to develop warmer relationships with the West but it's still pretty cozy with Russia.
Pakistan may be a shitty ally, but it's an ally, and it's cooperating militarily with the US in Afghanistan.
The US is not going to fuck itself over in Afghanistan just so Modi can rile up his nationalist base in advance of an election that was otherwise going to be fought on a slowing economy.
- After internet boom in 2000s, the dynamics has changed.
India is a country of 1.3 billion people and a huge number of them speak English. It's like the oil of future. US cannot put that relation at risk. It's not good for US economy.
Pak will always be collateral damage. India will get preference.
- The dynamic has changed in that India has developed economic ties with the US, but military ties with Pakistan are much stronger and military nobody trusts India not to go running back to Russia, with which India still has stronger military ties than with the US.
Afghanistan is a thing. Lots of US soldiers will die if the US alliance with Pakistan doesn't endure. No way the US jeopardizes its own interests in Afghanistan to salvage Modi's reputation. You really think that Trump is willing to let Americans die on his watch just so Modi can play tough guy?
I guarantee you that Modi also got a strong message to back the fuck down, and Pakistan got asked to release the soldier as a good will gesture between allies.
You really don't understand the dynamic. Afghanistan matters a lot more to the US than the h1b visa program. In fact Trump would likely be happy to see less Indian consulting. Goes with his Buy American outlook.
And while Indians may claim to be the oil of the future, superpower by 2020, etc, outside of India nobody really takes that seriously.