Leaving Google for Apple?

Google edna89
Nov 20, 2017 36 Comments

I am currently considering switching teams within Google as a result of several projects being cancelled/no growth opportunities but have also received an offer from Apple at a higher level. (ICT3 over L3). The work sounds very interesting and I think I would greatly enjoy it.

Would it be a good step for me to take the offer or would I be at loss on the long run.

I am optimizing for learning and career growth, not necessarily salary.

Any advice is most welcome.

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TOP 36 Comments
  • Apple / Product LaIj61
    Try to negotiate an ICT4 offer. You get more perks. Which team are you joining? Hopefully not IS&T
    Nov 20, 2017 7
    • Apple / Product LaIj61
      Depends on the team. Grad students join as IC3 or ICT3. I don’t see a huge difference in terms of responsibility between ICT3 and ICT4
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple / Product LaIj61
      More regular and larger RSU amounts mainly after the annual review
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Google edna89
      OP
      Interesting. I thought they did as an ICT2. I need to get my information straight on this one.
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Amazon
      fluffer

      Amazon

      PRE
      Amazon
      fluffermore
      Unlikely to get ict4 with slightly below 3 years of experience
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple / Product LaIj61
      Years of experience are not an indicator of qualification. I worked with an ICT5 who performed like an ICT2 or worse
      Nov 20, 2017
  • Square / Eng SQ
    I would never work at Apple. I interviewed for the Siri team and the paranoia they have at Apple is astounding. My lunch buddy worked on the Apple watch integration.

    For the whole project until it was announced, he couldn't say anything to the other Siri team members. None of them knew about the Apple watch or what he was working on for about two years. Two years.

    How can you work at a company that actively silences you and stifles collaboration?
    Nov 20, 2017 0
  • Apple / Eng Apl2Ggl
    You are getting some terrible and unrealistic advice here. ICT4 at Apple is L5 at Google. You are L3 now with ~3 years of experience. ICT3 is the CORRECT level for you at Apple (L4 at Google). If the org actually gives you ict4, it’s probably some shitty org at Apple!
    Nov 20, 2017 7
    • Google edna89
      OP
      Thank you for clarifying this, that was my initial understanding as well. Keeping that in mind, how different is the promo process in Apple from the one in Google? I am asking for the long term.
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple / Product LaIj61
      Promo process depends on the team and manager. I worked for a manager who promoted me from ICT3 to ICT4 and then was never able to push the ICT5 promotion through. I had friends in the same org that worked for managers that didn’t see the need to promote people beyond ICT3
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple Grai
      @Apl2 what is equivalent of Google ‘s staff at apple?
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple / Eng Apl2Ggl
      @Grai: hard to tell since Apple only has 6 levels (although ict6 is somewhat impossible to reach and maintain) whereas Google has 11 levels. ICT5 at Apple would probably cover both L6 and maybe L7.
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple Iamwhoiam
      But google staff salary (tc) is in the range 400-500k. Do ICT5 make that range?
      Nov 24, 2017
  • Apple pch053
    Yeah, shoot for ICT4. else I will be reluctant to take Apple offer at ICT3, especially after working at Google. Also make sure you like the team at Apple, if at all you take the offer.
    Nov 20, 2017 4
    • Apple / Eng Apl2Ggl
      Less than 3 years of experience, L3 at Google (==ict2) and you want him to aim for ict4?? Unless he is joining some shitty org at Apple, there is no way he can get in as ict4
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple pch053
      I have seen fresh grads/Phds with 1-2 years experience (and that too in not so promising startups) getting ICT4 positions. So it depends on the role, matching skill sets, etc.
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple / Eng Apl2Ggl
      The norm for PhD + 1-2 yrs is ICT3. If someone gets in as ICT4, it’s an exception. Since the author is L3 at Google (ict2 at Apple), I highly doubt he/she fits in the “exception”al category.
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple Fawad
      Google L3 is not necessarily ICT2 at Apple. You can move to ICT3 within 6-9 months of joining.

      So, to be clear, this is a lateral move not an upward move.
      Nov 20, 2017
  • Apple Fawad
    I disagree that Apple ICT3 is strictly greater than Google L3. You can make ICT3 less than a year after joining.

    OP has one year experience, so this is a lateral move... NOT an upward move.

    ICT3 is NOT as good as L4.
    Nov 20, 2017 3
    • Google edna89
      OP
      Would you recommend aiming for an ICT4 then? What exactly is the job spec difference? I have a clear distinction between level expectations within Google but I don't know what each band means in other companies.
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Google ygtrx
      Seconded, know friends getting l4 and ict4 at the same time
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Amazon FUMx01
      Why not switch teams at Google? It's probably going to be a better bet than Apple in teams of perks and potentially pay.
      Nov 20, 2017
  • Arbor Networks / Eng UEgY83
    How long have you been at Google?
    Nov 20, 2017 1
    • Google edna89
      OP
      A bit over a year now.
      Nov 20, 2017
  • Yahoo
    DDT666

    Yahoo

    PRE
    Apple, Intel
    DDT666more
    Software team or hardware team? If it is hardware team, stay away as far as possible
    Nov 20, 2017 3
    • Google edna89
      OP
      Software. What's wrong with hardware?
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Amazon
      fluffer

      Amazon

      PRE
      Amazon
      fluffermore
      Why?
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Yahoo
      DDT666

      Yahoo

      PRE
      Apple, Intel
      DDT666more
      Higher chance to meet a distorted-minded manager. They got the pressure from upper for yearly delivery and always amplify it and pass to the team. Tons of stories that I can share...under this, the atmosphere may be totally screwed up. It does not matter how high the stock bumps, you are just living in the hell day by day
      Nov 20, 2017
  • Google edna89
    OP
    Could you give me some advice in terms of how to negotiate that? I know how to negotiate salaries but not so much levels.
    Nov 20, 2017 3
    • Apple / Product LaIj61
      Try to get from the recruiter or hiring manager the exact performance expectations for an ICT4 and explain how you already meet these expectations. Don’t let HR screw you by the number of years of experience, they mean nothing whatsoever
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Google edna89
      OP
      Thank you! I can definitely do that. All of my work is public so I can freely talk about it.
      Nov 20, 2017
    • Apple / Product LaIj61
      I would push pretty hard on this as jumping to ICT4 and then ICT5 will take a lot of time at Apple. Managers are coming up with ridiculous excuses for not promoting people that meet all the criteria for a promotion
      Nov 20, 2017