Manager/employee disputes with no paper trail

Amazon buh-bye!
Jun 9 13 Comments

HR people on Blind, or managers/employees who have had to work with HR to resolve issues:
Have you ever had HR side with the employee rather than the manager, or is their goal to always protect the manager where possible?

Other than cases of gross misconduct from the manager (eg: sexual harassment), or things that have clear paper trails, does HR care to do something about complaints from an employee?

For example, if my manager said “fuck you” to me during 1:1s all the time, I could complain about this to HR, but if I don’t have a paper trail (email etc.), it will be hard to take him/the company to court about it. Is there any use in going to HR in this case, or will their investigations just be eyewash to ensure the company’s bases are covered?

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TOP 13 Comments
  • Microsoft Specific
    Not HR, but HR is not there for you. They are there to stop the company from being sued. So if you don't have evidence, you're likely going to be the one dumped on. Anything outside of that is going to be the exception as far as those departments are concerned.
    Jun 9 0
  • If he does it all the time, you could record that shit and get an employment lawyer. They will advise you on next steps.

    A friend of mine recorded her boss calling her racial slurs. She retained a lawyer who coached her through the entire process, reporting it to HR and all. HR retaliated, eventually the boss wrongfully fired her. Meanwhile, the lawyer is gathering all of this activity. She sued, and when the company figured out she had the recording they settled so fast she didn’t have time to think about the tens of thousands she was getting.

    People are going to cry foul about the legality of recording without consent and yada yada, but I think some of those laws come into conflict with EEOC / workforce regulations and your general fear of increased hostility and retaliation. Also depends on the state as someone mentioned. Ask a lawyer, consultations are often free.

    Don’t ever trust HR, they are hired by the company for the company.
    Jun 27 0
  • Facebook rr🤣😭
    Just secretly record your next 1:1 and wait for the magic words
    Jun 9 3
    • Twitter hodgesodge
      'federal wire tap laws'?
      Jun 9
    • SolarWinds AnEngineer
      Depends on the state. Some states are one party.
      Jun 9
    • Microsoft Specific
      Washington and California are not those states.
      Jun 9
  • Amazon wFOC46
    I very recently went through this. My manager was extremely rude, combative, and just generally nasty to me during our 1:1s. In my case, documentation saved my ass.

    I eventually ended up sending an email to my manager, my skip, and HR saying that I felt that my manager was no longer acting in good faith, and that I wasn't comfortable having 1:1s without a 3rd party present. I was moved to a new manager.

    If you speak to HR your manager will be informed. Know that this is scorched Earth territory. Have your facts ready, and having someone like a team lead or co-worker help establish a pattern is helpful. I'd also recommend recording 1:1s if you live in a 1 party state.. You will not be able to use them in your HR fight, but it will allow you to transcribe them and ensure you are taking accurate notes.
    Jun 9 1
    • Amazon buh-bye!
      OP
      What kind of documentation did you have?
      Jun 9
  • Apple blindpeach
    I went above my managers head to HR, HR sided with me. I had a favorable resolution within a week’s time. DM for details if interested, not posting publicly as it is a very particular instance to my case.
    Jun 9 0
  • Workday Whatday?
    Sounds like you haven't been in the workforce for very long but have done your research. In fact, you have answered your question. Just chill and don't involve HR. HR exists to protect the company, not its employees.
    Jun 9 0
  • Google AIMLOK
    Keep a journal of the conversations and interactions with dates/timestamps. Don't use work resources for this journal. Make sure all entries are sequential and there aren't gaps between entries (e.g. use a physical notebook)
    Jun 9 2
    • Facebook tantan85
      Why is it important to use physical notebook vs. a company device?
      Jun 10
    • Google AIMLOK
      Because the company can rightfully claim ownership of whatever company asset you used to take those notes and prevent your access to them.
      Jun 10