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Amazon / Eng
psuedorand

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Oct 4, 2018 22 Comments

I recently received an offer from Microsoft. The offer letter only says Software Engineer and doesn’t mention level (59/60/61).
I asked my HR before interview about level and she said the level will depend upon my performance but when I got the offer, I asked her again about my level and then she said I’ll have to discuss this with my Hiring Manager.
Is this common? Does Microsoft not reveal this information before accepting offer? What should I do?

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TOP 22 Comments
  • Microsoft / Data
    ychmoops2

    Microsoft Data

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    ychmoops2more
    Don’t accept the offer unless they disclose the level. I’ve seen people get hosed thanks to that
    Oct 4, 2018 2
    • Amazon / Eng
      psuedorand

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      OP
      Thanks for the info! Yep, I am going to ask him about the level before I sign the offer. Btw, the HR seems to be very unresponsive, how long do they usually take to reply back?
      Oct 4, 2018
    • Microsoft Ao325Ob059
      Microsoft internals are slow
      Oct 5, 2018
  • Microsoft hokuspokus
    Software engineer is 59 or 60. Level 61 is software engineer 2.
    Insist on getting the level in writing. If they refuse, assume it is 59 and you'll need average 1.5 years to get to 60 if you do well. If it was 60, they would have revealed it :)
    Oct 4, 2018 3
    • Amazon / Eng
      psuedorand

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      OP
      Thanks for the info! The job description said they require a developer with 2-3+ years of experience so I assumed its atleast L60. What should I do if they refuse to disclose it?
      Oct 4, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      psuedorand

      Amazon Eng

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      OP
      Also, I’ve 2.5 yrs of experience so I’m hoping to get atleast L60, I heard L59 is usually for fresh graduates :(
      Oct 4, 2018
    • Microsoft hokuspokus
      Like I said, if they don't disclose it, assume it's 59.
      Here is how you can potentially convince the recruiter: the level is visible to the employee the day the join. So not disclosing your level is only going to keep it secret till you join. If you find out you are under leveled the day you join, you'll be very unhappy and it is not good for both you and the team. Tell the recruiter you would like to be happy and productive when you join and not have to regret taking the offer.
      Oct 5, 2018
  • Microsoft / Eng JavaMonstr
    Base 109=lvl59, 117 = lvl60, 130= lvl61
    Oct 4, 2018 1
    • New / IT hard work
      What is the maximum base for lvl:60?
      Jun 21
  • New marble
    Check out http://levels.fyi to match level based on base
    Oct 5, 2018 0
  • Microsoft AllHellLoo
    You should be told about the level. Else, push back
    Oct 4, 2018 0
  • New / Eng poRd04
    What's comp ratio?
    Oct 4, 2018 1
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      The ratio of your salary to the midpoint of the level salary.
      Oct 4, 2018
  • Microsoft Fefe
    Pro tip: your base salary can be used to determine your level. $100k-$110k:59, $115k-$125k L60. In between is a gray area
    Oct 5, 2018 0
  • Microsoft Duxe82
    They did the same shit with me. Don’t accept it they don’t tell level.
    Oct 4, 2018 0
  • New / Eng poRd04
    If they dont tell you don't accept the offer, if you decide to accept anyway assme it's 59. Also 61 is swe2
    Oct 4, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng
    psuedorand

    Amazon Eng

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    OP
    Thank you all for the info!
    I am going to ask my HR about this before I sign the letter, but he seems to be very unresponsive. How long does it take for HR in Microsoft to reply back?
    Oct 4, 2018 2
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      Between 1 hr and infinity.
      Oct 4, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      psuedorand

      Amazon Eng

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      OP
      Haha, got it!
      Oct 4, 2018
  • Microsoft Obaama
    What's your offer op?
    Oct 5, 2018 0
  • Microsoft DOyu71
    You should tell them you cannot accept the offer without the level and copy the hm if you have his/her address.
    Oct 4, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Eng
    japskills

    Microsoft Eng

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    japskillsmore
    They will low-ball like hell. Did the same with me. Don't accept unless they tell you level. Also ask for comp ratio
    Oct 4, 2018 0