People again HR1044 or S386 are against fairness to all.

Intel UrOsm
Jul 11 236 Comments

Sad to see in a country like USA which has raised above all discrimination have people like these who oppose a simple and sensible bill like this. When the discrimination does not happen based on your color, religion and citizenship why it should happen on place of birth?
Seems obvious that those selfish people are enjoying the discrimination advantages till now and are fearing to loose it.

comments

Want to comment? LOG IN or SIGN UP
TOP 236 Comments
  • Dropbox bigbeans
    talking about fairness
    Jul 11 24
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      It's been around for 10 years and in fact passed in 2011 after multiple hearings. Only change since then was addition of do no harm provision. Your claims of "secrecy" are laughable given you're one google search away. If you couldn't find it on Microsoft Bing Search, too bad that's your fault.
      Jul 11
    • Google / Eng bklogged
      If you think so - first you should remind yourself that the # of well qualified candidates from India on eb1 who are waiting behind unskilled eb3 from row is much higher. If you make this argument that it should be merit, to remove country caps simply gets us a step closer to reducing the injustice that you just mentioned.

      Also, it's you who has been making this I am special than thou argument. If most of Iranians are PhD candidates, there has and will be eb1 always! Why don't u qualify for eb1 extraordinary individual or researcher. Are you doing so bad research that USCIS doesn't think it's good enough for eb1?
      Jul 11
    • Bloomberg SDSK<GO>
      Why are you using country as a stat, this is above people and their skills in a skill based immigration GC pool.
      Jul 12
    • Microsoft HqoA11
      @bklogged you don’t automatically qualify for eb1 if you have a phd, as far as I know tech companies apply for eb2 if you have a grad degree, barely applying for eb1.
      Eb1 india being behind eb3 row is simply ridiculous and unfair. Since I have seen only highly qualified people being in that queue, I believe it is not right to have them wait such a long time, if what you are saying is true.
      The bar for eb2 is low, and there is a mix of people on the spectrum of highly qualified to not qualified in it. The body shop/consultancy firms bring folks averaging on the lower skilled side of spectrum, in my view, thus my opposition with removing the caps
      Jul 12
    • Microsoft HqoA11
      @bklogged, your argument regarding eb1 is flawed. EB1 definition might have changed recently, but I don’t think the amount of research and publication that is needed in top 50 US schools qualifies you for a phd degree, would be enough for eb1. Secondly, many phd grads opt to follow industrial research/applied path after graduation.
      Jul 12
  • Google / Eng YFlk40
    This bill is hurting the diversity.
    Jul 11 42
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      Ah yes, that’s another issue we have to deal with. Politics and getting support from enough people in Congress is always going to be a pain.

      I don’t really know about specifics on which congressman supports the S2091 or how popular (or unpopular) it is in the Senate or House. If that’s the case, then it’s an even more uphill battle.

      Boat may be too leaky and we will have no choice but to find a better boat and abandon the leaky one. Would require jumping into the water and swimming, though.
      5d
    • Apple UYgA64
      Hooli.xyz, are you a Chinese? If yes, what’s your PD?
      5d
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      I’m American, why?
      5d
    • Apple UYgA64
      Why do you care so much about immigration? I wonder why an American will learn such convoluted immigration process.
      5d
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      I care about my country’s affairs. Also, a lot of my friends at work are Indians and Chinese, some of them I spend time with outside work. Unfortunately, they are all still waiting for GCs.

      My wife is also half-Mexican and a lot of her relatives are immigrants.
      5d
  • Lyft done2
    So your Indian?
    Jul 11 4
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      Do you need to ask? Isn’t it obvious
      Jul 11
    • Lyft done2
      You spent a lot of effort to try to mask it as some moral imperative dude
      Jul 11
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      It’s common sense I am talking here. Reason my comments here if you care, judgements have no importance here
      Jul 11
    • Trimble tinkldiges
      @Done2 "Your Indian?" - My Indian what?
      4d
  • Microsoft dontdelete
    Good. At least you don’t pretend to be a non-Indian, like others usually do
    Jul 11 9
    • Lyft done2
      Lol this Benefits 2 groups only. Corporations, and upper cast Indians. The more you push this the more selfish you look
      Jul 11
    • Microsoft belleseat
      Why would Chinese support this bill? There are several comments saying to not bundle Chinese into this. Chinese waiting time will only increase. Who in their sane mind support this bill?
      4d
    • Apple MClayton
      - Chinese waiting time will not increase
      - Chinese EB-5 will vastly decrease
      - Chinese family-based will decrease by half
      4d
    • Microsoft belleseat
      What about Chinese in EB-3 and EB-2? Their waiting time currently is sitting around 5 years. Will it be reduced? There is a post that analyzes the waiting time and it doesn’t seem like it will reduce. There are millions of people from India waiting in the queue. They will be processed first which means most of Chinese will be in the back of the queue. Isn’t this obvious? Chinese applicants are not as many as Indian applicants. Please post the reasoning if otherwise. That will be helpful to many Chinese and who knows? They will start supporting it. So far, none of Chinese I know support it and it is even obvious in Blind. Many Chinese claim to not bundle themZ
      3d
    • Apple MClayton
      Everyone who is *in* EB3 and EB2 already will get it faster or equal time.
      3d
  • Microsoft HINs46
    What fairness?
    Who's responsible for the backlog? Maybe the US immigration law, maybe other people from your country. Either way, there's absolutely nothing ROW does of it.

    And now you want ROW to pay for this s**t?

    And call it fairness?
    5d 38
    • Apple RatingComp
      Keep in mind all our policies are very outdated and everyone knows that. Don’t think congress has the ability to swiftly reach to changing needs. With immigration one policy change every 10 years is a big thing.

      And it should not be TC instead based on full time vs contracting. Smaller companies that cannot compete with Apple and Google cannot compete hiring foreign talent.
      4d
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      Wtf is wrong with ROW. Now when they no longer defend diversity as an excuse. They started on WITCH issue. Not all waiting for GC have fake resumes and low paying jobs. And do you check for ROW as how many are qualified. If WITCH is as an issue it is an American system problem and it is being exploited by everyone and again because India is a high populated country it is more known for it.
      So stop play this WITCH card
      4d
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      Wtf is wrong with you? I am Indian and I hate those bodyshops. They are the reason you guys are in this predicament to begin with - I was too for 7 years. I used to volunteer for the organization behind this bill till I realized that they were not really interested in a merit-based system or 'fairness'. Makes sense in hindsight, because their base comprises of all those EB3s who wiggled their way into EB2.
      4d
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      @cartman first of all stop calling yourself an Indian. I hate this WITCH too but I should not suffer because of it just because I was born in same country where these companies come from. It’s again unfair to someone who has skills and deserve a gc
      4d
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      I know it is unfair to you individually. But the bill will be unfair to a lot of truly qualified people. You guys in tech need to organize your own lobby and dump this 💩 bill. Then you will have some credibility on these forums and in the halls of Congress.
      4d
  • If the per country quota was not in place, USA would have been overrun with Mexicans a long time back. There would have been no room for any Asians.
    Jul 11 3
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      False, you should be aware of EB categories
      Jul 11
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Flagged by the community.

  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      Reasons???
      Jul 11
    • Amazon replica
      Go back a few decades when civil rights moment was in full swing. There would still be folks like these who will be petitioning to protect their privelege. Common sense is slow but always prevails in America.
      Jul 11
    • Amazon yup!
      It's a bad bill that will reduce the quality of immigrant and increase the amount of unfairness.
      Jul 11
    • Apple blindf0ld
      This random Microsoft guy should ask his CEO to sign this petition 😂! Good lord... MS has some racist bigots working for them. It’s time for Satya to cleanse the company.
      4d
  • Amazon replica
    It's dumb to bias diversity on merit. Other countries aren't doing it and they are doing just fine.
    Jul 11 15
    • Lyft done2
      Will be more merit based with relaxed country caps
      Jul 11
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      Haha.. so you still want county based cap.. you don’t see that in other countries.. I know why you want it because people from your country can’t compete on merit with Indians
      Jul 11
    • Lyft done2
      There’s 1.4b of you....no shit some can code
      Jul 11
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      Absolutely, so my dear friend either this bill or some other bill like this will pass soon or this 1.4 billion will make Silicon Valley some where else and the rest of the world will try to bring their ass over there
      Jul 11
    • Lyft done2
      Please do, I’ll wait
      Jul 11
  • Amazon acker
    People against hr1044 are not against fairness for all. Pretty much all of us want to see a solution to the backlog that gets greencards to qualified people from India.

    The issue is that Hr1044 is deeply flawed and instead of fixing the problem actually makes it worse.

    Let's define the problem objectively in terms that don't mention race or country of birth:

    "There are highly qualified people who are being made to wait years for a greencard"

    And let's state the goal in objective terms:

    "Create an immigration system that in general awards greencards to the most meritorious applicants"

    The issue with hr1044 is that it doesn't achieve the goal and actually results in a LESS MERITORIOUS outcome than the status quo. Which is not to say the status quo is acceptable, just that hr1044 is EVEN LESS acceptable.

    The objective reason why is that the backlog was created by the consulting companies spamming low quality applications almost all of which are in the India queue.

    About 40% of India applicants are just as high quality as rest of world, but about 60% are these low quality consulting ones.

    If you just remove the country cap without other fixes you swap high quality rest of world applicants for 2/5ths high quality India applicants and 3/5ths low quality applicants.

    The level of merit GOES DOWN.

    Those opposed to hr1044 do want a solution to the backlog but we want one that maintains the high level of merit the status quo delivers or even improves on it.

    I've attached data, 2016 India i140 petitions, to illustrate my point.
    6d 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      NASA guys can get EB1s after a few years. Corporate guys better have TC or GTFO.
      6d
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      As for how to set wages, I have said this elsewhere and I will repeat it here. If prevailing wage determination has taught us any lessons, it is that using DOL wages based on *occupation* to grant visas is a recipe for disaster.

      PWD for H1Bs has lead to companies relying on cheap H1Bs instead of raising wages to retain their American employees. There should be just one wage for private and one for academic and it has to be based entirely upon the location. At that point, if a company wants to hire an immigrant, they better pay at the rate other immigrants in the area are getting paid. Otherwise they need to raise wages to find a mix of citizens and immigrants or figure out how to conduct their business in another state. This will keep both the immigrants and their American counterparts happy.

      It's typical BS from the organization behind this bill that TC can not be used for determining merit because of x,y,z. That's just them pulling ideas out of their asses to sell a horrible bill.
      6d
    • Microsoft oMAG58
      @(. .) Just because he worked at Apple doesn't mean he actually is skilled or smart. Many hires in tech company are politicized and/or through connections. Someone who was able to work in Apple should have the skills to land offers at a lot of other places. If he/she had to resort to consultancy, that says a lot about his actual skills.
      4d
    • Reliable Software / Eng (. .)
      @oMAG58 correct me if I am wrong. Once you are laid off on h1b you have only 1 month to find the next job right? Are you saying that one can get the offer within a mere month? Even people at big n would find that hard
      4d
    • Microsoft oMAG58
      Thought it's always been 60 days. In any case, even if they had to resort to consultancy, couldn't they just spend another month or two to get back into other companies? I mean filing PERM/140/485 takes a bit of time in itself, if you know you can get a job elsewhere and getting compensated much better, why would you stay at a consultancy firm while you wait for GC process? I worked at a consultancy firm myself with much lower pay. It took me 2 weeks for client to recommend me joining as FT. Finding an industry level paid job shouldn't be difficult at all when you are actually at the industry level.
      4d
  • Lyft done2
    Once we move to a true merit based system then the country caps can be relaxed . With the current incarnation this is just going to bring in relatively low skill Indians from body shops replacing jobs at there’s plenty of native talent for it. Literally just a corporate profit play To depress wages
    Jul 11 6
    • Lyft done2
      How does it differentiate from an IT body shop employee versus a fang employee?
      Jul 11
    • Facebook / Product scentport
      Body shop employment approvals are dying out, hardly any new ones being issues and renewals being denied. Existing employees with approved I140’s just need a visa no. since thrive been vetted out by the labor department years ago. Understood?
      Jul 11
    • Lyft done2
      But that approval criteria could change at any time
      Jul 11
    • Facebook / Product scentport
      Not changing any tone under trump
      Jul 11
    • Lyft done2
      It’s not a great deal. Trump can get much better in second term
      Jul 11
  • Tesla siwndnisb
    You’re saying it’s fair to stop immigration from any other country and just allow from India for the next decades? That sounds like racism.
    This act has nothing to do with fairness. It will fail in senate.
    Jul 11 4
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      How is it stopping immigration from other countries?
      It’s like i with my 5 Indian friends went to a bar at 9pm and you alone came at 10pm. You want to get in before the 5 Indians just because you are not a indian. That sounds racism to me
      Jul 11
    • Tesla siwndnisb
      Racism is when you give the privilege to one country.
      If h1 worked better most of you wouldn’t be here in the first place.
      Jul 11
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      Can you share a graph or worlds population? A graph for tax paid by Indians? A graph for number of students in Masters colleges here? Number of employees in top tech companies?
      You won’t because your logic ends on one graph without understanding the real world scenario. Obviously a country with 1/3 of worlds population will have more people coming for high skilled jobs. No one comes to us for just us, they come for good jobs and because there is a demand for high skilled people and India produce the most. It’s simple demand and supply . If this bill is not passed all most jobs will move to Canada or other competing countries and god help those who were taking advantage of this current law because you won’t make to Canada because of merit system
      Jul 11
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      This is fake campaign material. I can also create a bar graph with fake data anytime I want, but I don't use those tactics oh well. There are 140K per year, and anyone in EB2 also has the option anytime to downgrade to EB3 and concurrently file an i-485 if EB3 is faster.

      But you're a racist, so you obviously won't give the whole truth.
      Jul 11
  • Amazon / Eng togiwiw
    Lol so many haters in the name of diversity. Everyone should admit it that the current system works for them and that's why they don't want that to change. Hiding behind the mask of wanting to protect USA from low quality consultants lmao.
    Jul 11 1
    • Lyft done2
      Everyone should act in their rational self interest. That’s the Premise of democracy
      Jul 11
  • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
    I am Indian and I want this bill to die. I don't want to see a whole lot of losers earning 90k in the Bay area getting green cards. The current EB system needs to be abolished, everyone required to join a new points based system with some points for how long they have stayed, and then it makes sense to remove per country cap. This is the same shit organization that lobbied hard to allow porting of PDs which fucked up qualified Indians in EB2.
    Jul 12 24
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      If it won’t fly, bad luck usa.. more jobs and people will move to Canada.
      6d
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      That's not so bad really. If that happens, then Congress will increase visa numbers and clear the backlog. But with the visas they currently have, only equitable way is a merit-based reform.

      Unfortunately, legit Indians are getting screwed by this. That's why I hope you organize your own lobby and your own bill.
      6d
    • Apple rzoI28
      ROW dude spotted.
      6d
    • Flagged by the community.

    • All these bills are useless. Propose a merit based bill with a single metric for merit: TC per profession per region and it will fly. Every other metrics can be fabricated by these f***ing consultancies.
      3d
  • Amazon yup!
    HR1044 is unfair to everyone. Stop the bullshit, it's a bad bill.
    Jul 11 2
    • Amazon TRuc81
      No dude the best are getting h1bs
      Jul 11
    • Veritas mojojojox
      I'd really like to see the excel sheet of this. Can you please put the link here for us to see?
      Jul 12
  • LinkedIn Humphrey G
    ROW folk crying foul:
    You guys just don’t seem to know how the Hill works. No amount of blind posts or tweets will make a difference. You’ve to lobby/get a sponsor for an alternative etc. HR 1044, S386 is way ahead as it’s been in the works for 10 years, has bipartisan support, has a lobby backing it, and as y’all accept, is trying to improve a bad situation for an affected group. That’s too much momentum.

    It’ll pass, there’s no doubt about it.
    The question is, what’re y’all gonna do about it?

    Backlogged folk:
    Why’s priority date the deciding factor? 10 years and all that lobbying muscle could have easily added a ranking/points system to it with priority date also getting (albeit less) points while getting rid of country caps.

    P.S: I’m not affected by any of this.
    Jul 13 4
    • Tesla / Eng elontuskk
      Cause with merit system maybe only 15% of Indians would qualify. That’s why they want to keep the current system in place. Specifically Indian consultancies.
      Jul 13
    • Apple rzoI28
      But nursing agencies are also fighting against this bill in full momentum.
      6d
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      I really can't care about this nefarious bill designed to get GCs to low wage IT workers under the disguise of 'fairness'. When there is a bill that cuts them out and then removes per country cap, I will be a cheerleader. Ironically, the President labeled as the jerk by the entire media has the most reasonable proposal I have seen. Till his proposal gets through, I hope he keeps kicking them out by denying H1B renewals and EB1Cs. 4 yours of Trump may turn out to be the best thing for EB2I.

      Which visa are the nurses coming up? Perhaps there is a need to block that visa as well.
      6d
    • Lyft done2
      It past the house just so they could prove to the people whose money they take that they’ve done something. No one, including Camilla has any illusion that this will become law.
      5d
  • Apple RatingComp
    When I say you all, I say American citizens. I am willing to join BTW. If it’s a concern why everyone is very quiet. In my team I am asking the same question for years. Why have contractors with reduced productivity? Instead hire more full time.

    But reality is finding full time candidates is super hard.

    I am not generalizing all contractor. Some of them are really good but quiet not there in terms of demonstrating ownership to be considered for full time. But most are meh.
    5d 5
    • Microsoft HINs46
      Subpar programmers for subpar works. It can be a good business choice for the company, another story for the immigration process. Especially when contractors with fake backgrounds blocking GC from real good fulltimers. It is good fulltimers we are lack of, not subpar contractors.
      4d
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      "not having enough people available" is a whole lot of 🐴💩. People go where wages are high. If companies don't have people they need to raise wages. But wages can't rise because the market has been flooded by cheap labor. It was never intended to be this way, and it needs to be cleaned up now.
      4d
    • Apple RatingComp
      Wages don’t increase because of H1B and GC backlog strings attached to people. That’s the key to wage suppression.

      And Microsoft has got a point. If we remove subpar programmers who is going to do their jobs? Do we have enough Americans for that?

      Job displacement might be happening b cause of greedy American CEOs, but claiming American programmers unemployed is a whole lot of carp too.

      If yes why would they rather choose to be unemployed instead of working for 90k jobs in bay area like WITCH programmers do?
      4d
    • Microsoft HINs46
      That's not my point Apple. My point is that US needs the best programmers to come in first. If there's not enough seats, only the best ones should be granted GC. Subpar programming jobs should leave the US. I agree with cartman, cheap labor is the problem.
      4d
    • Apple RatingComp
      I don’t dispute that. EB2 should be given o Ly for direct hire for full time. All other EVC model can go in EB3 but I growing those jobs away out of US will not help them he economy here. Tax from 90k pay is too too.
      4d
  • Amazon mWGI14
    This bill will also discourage the body shops to file more GC. The reason being, with the current backlogged system body shops are being rewarded with the ability to retain employees even after paying less than the market salary. The current benefit of filing the green card with backlogged system is you can keep extending the H1b for ever and as a company you dont have to keep getting new people onboard. Once the applicants are not backlogged they will get green card faster and will be able to change jobs more freely. This will discourage them to file GCs for employees unless they have other ways of retaining them.
    Jul 11 0
    • Lyft done2
      How do petitions get validated? I would assume you need to be a citizen, is that something that’s ever checked? Fascinating
      4d
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      No, you don’t need to be a citizen
      4d
    • Amazon acker
      You need to be a permanent resident or a citizen to be active in US politics. Certainly you can't donate to or contribute materially to a political campaign (including eg volunteering, advertising, etc) as a non resident alien. Not sure the status of a petition, that might fall short of what's actually not allowed.
      4d
    • Oracle SLVT77
      Acker, that is not true. The lobbying group immigration voice (India voice) have been actively soliciting our lawmakers, visiting congress, townhalls etc to push for this bill. They have been very successful at it, given that it has passed the house.
      3d
    • Amazon acker
      You're supposed to be a permanent resident to participate
      3d
  • Intel UrOsm
    OP
    Yes, I-140 approved and desperate for this bill or any bill like this to pass
    Jul 11 2
    • Tesla siwndnisb
      People at the southern border are desperate. You can move anywhere, I’m now sure what’s the deal.
      H1 is temporarily working visa.
      Btw Indian is in to 10 countries for asylum as well.
      Jul 11
    • Intel UrOsm
      OP
      Do you even understand what does I-140 approval means?? You were asking about my status as if you knew these details but seems like you know nothing.
      When a I-140 is approved for a person on H1b it means that the person is approved to get a gc when his/her priority date is current. From there on h1b visa is no more just a temp visa. One can work and stay for life on that.
      Jul 11